Roula: [00:00:00] Terry, I would like to know from you, what draw you to words? How did impact your life before and the change they made that made you want to write your book? The words we choose. 

Terre: It's a, it's an interesting question. I feel that I spent my whole life, have spent my whole life being drawn to words. I listen carefully to the words that my parents chose and what they chose to say to me because there was a difference between how one parent spoke to me and how the other one spoke to me.

Terre: My father was always telling me I could do anything and very supportive and such. And I paid attention to those word choices. And then I became a parent and I, I recall very vividly when my daughter was about two years old, my son asked a question and I was answering the question. He was always asking me why, why, what about this?

Terre: What about that? And I answered the question and she, she was two and she [00:01:00] said, You don't know that, mommy. And I thought, huh, did I not choose my words properly? And then I got into the workforce, and I got very sensitive to what leaders in particular were saying, and how, how they were sometimes not getting the message across the way I thought they wanted to.

Terre: Even when you watch television or politics and such, and you think, wait a minute, is that really what they wanted to invoke by way of the word choices they made? So ultimately I wrote a book about that, 

Roula: how beautiful that our children, I have similar experience with my kids when they turn teenagers. For me, this is the moment where I started noticing the words I use, how it's impacting them and how they are correcting me.

Roula: It felt that their generation is more aware of [00:02:00] words, maybe because we're teaching them a freedom of be who they are. My generation, Generation X, we grow up to do what we are told and not ask questions because asking questions is rude and, um, by finding words is with asking questions. Is this cultural, you think?

Terre: Oh, I think it's cultural and generational, both of those things that you hit on. It's really both. And I absolutely agree with you. I believe that, um, teenagers. 20 somethings right now are asking better questions. They are owning their own perception and they're speaking their truth, let's say, more than maybe we were encouraged to do in the past and like me more than you because I'm older.

Roula: And to touch about the workforce and how you found leaders are not using the right words to [00:03:00] inspire, motivate, get to the goal. Is this something you noticed and you thought, I can do something to help them? How did it start? 

Terre: Absolutely. It was a combination of what I heard leaders saying, top leaders, top leaders in Fortune 500 organizations and in the United States anyway, and they were, they would speak in very uncertain terms using words.

Terre: that were uncertain. And I, I would say to myself, I don't think that's what they really intend to convey. And then coupled with that, with my decades that I spent in healthcare, I heard people saying things to patients that caused more anxiety as opposed to relieved anxiety. And from the physician to the dietician, to anybody in between.

Terre: And, It struck me as that, that's not what the patient wants to hear, that does not invoke confidence in them. That also fueled my desire to write a [00:04:00] book about word choices. In every part of our lives, the book goes through the word choices for our internal narrative first, then with loved ones, then in the world at large, then in the workplace, and then, I would say, spiritually.

Roula: Can you give me a few examples of the uncertain words that top leaders would use? Another example, how healthcare people do not reassure the patient? 

Terre: Yes, absolutely. Well, in town hall meetings, in presentations, I've heard executives say that we probably We'll hit our goal by the end of the season or that they were pretty sure that we were going to do something and that or I think, or I think maybe we will do this or that.

Terre: Oh, my goodness, any 1 of those examples. Invokes uncertainty for me as the listener as I hear that, I think, so [00:05:00] are we, aren't we and why would you not be sure? And I. Also would say to myself, you make the big bucks. Maybe you're beyond saying, I think I expect that the answer to this, those are a few of the ones that I've stood out to me over over time with health care.

Terre: There are a couple angles here. 1 was in the question asking a physician comes and speaks to a patient spends a few minutes with them, give them maybe complicated information about their diagnosis. And then in the end, they rush about and say, Do you have any more questions or is there anything else you need me to tell you?

Terre: Something like that, that's a yes, no, instead of saying, And now what sort of questions do you have for me? Making it assumed that they would have questions by starting with that word of what and making it open ended. Additionally, all sorts of workers that would interact with patients and say, the example I use in my book [00:06:00] is the individual saying, I'm just the dietician.

Terre: I overheard that and I thought, well, wait a minute. This patient can't leave the hospital until their body's functioning properly, which is related to the nutrition that they eat. take in. And your job is to help with that nutritional intake and to provide information. You're not just a dietician. You're a key team member for the progress this patient is going to make.

Terre: And own that. Own that and say it properly. 

Roula: What do you think, why we use these words? Because we're unsure, uncertain, is it self confidence? What bring us to these words? Yes, yes, yes, all of those things. 

Terre: Yes, and what happens is that we have to go way back and think about the words that one is choosing for their internal narrative.

Terre: I call that your personal podcast. Just like you have your [00:07:00] headset on now. We have our headset on for our personal podcast 24 7. We're always listening to that internal dialogue. And if that internal dialogue is offering words and we're saying to ourselves words that make us uncertain, make us lack confidence or even self esteem, then that will play out in how we speak to others, particularly in how we speak to others about ourselves or about what we intend to do or what our contribution is.

Terre: We're not fully prepared to own our contribution and to own our contribution. what, how we're there to be of service to the other person. And I tell you what, I coach this day in and day out. Even the most advanced leaders have some sort of hesitation to own, to speak about their own contributions in a way that's more uplifting.

Roula: Did you also coach the other way around the ones who are arrogant and use too [00:08:00] many self confident Interestingly enough, I have, 

Terre: and this is what I like to say when I'm trying to coach a leader, or I am coaching a leader, to manage themselves up and advocate for themselves better. I always use the example of the surgeon.

Terre: A surgeon says, Harry, thank you for coming to me for your care, or maybe they don't even thank me, and they say, I've removed 2500 gallbladders, and I've done this, and I've done that, and I went to the school, and they're very supportive of me. Certain about their qualifications to remove my gallbladder and the reality is, is to some people that sounds boastful and some, in some cases it can be, but mostly it's in service to me as the patient.

Terre: It's absolutely in service to me as the patient for the physician to own their credentials, their qualifications, their experience, and to say it to me in a way that isn't so much boastful. But is. Is filled with accurate information [00:09:00] that helps me put me at ease and I do and the rub there, the problem there is when it's not in service to another, when someone is using words that are assertive and demanding in a way that belittles the other person.

Terre: And sometimes we need to walk that back and think about the effect to the other person. Keeping the thought that your intention is to be in service to the other person and not to be belittling them in some way. 

Roula: Wherever we go and how we turn around with our conversations, even if it's making social media posts or promoting ourselves or talking to our loved ones, It seems it's getting more and more obvious that we should show them their benefit in what we want to do or give.

Roula: Or take rather than how we're good at something. 

Terre: That's right. [00:10:00] Then it's not boastful. Then it's not bragging. When you're in service to the other and you're giving them information that will put them at ease or will help them understand. Maybe even out of healthcare, maybe let's say in the corporate world, when you're telling your manager what you're most proud of and what you've accomplished, that you're saying it in a way that enables them to know what, what truly your contribution is, or maybe the contribution of your team.

Terre: You can't expect them to know that at all times. Being able to choose the right words to. To support yourself, your work, your contribution, and that of your team, incredibly important. And I coach that all the time because it, people don't, they don't feel good about that. And again, that's relates back to what they're telling themselves internally on a daily basis.

Roula: How did this, coaching and knowing more about words and speaking helped you in your personal life with your family. [00:11:00]

Terre: Ah, 

Roula: keeps me on my

Terre: toes. It very much does. I, I believe that it's a reflection of self awareness and as humans, that's our, that's our main goal. I believe that's our main goal is to continually become more and more self aware and more and more self aware.

Terre: For sure, I say things and then when my self awareness kicks in, sometimes after the fact, I go. Not what was in my heart, not my intention, chose the wrong words. Sometimes it's after the fact, but other times I try to have that thought, even if it's a nanosecond, have that thought of what is my intention? I absolutely see it like this.

Terre: Here's the visual. Well, I guess not everybody is seeing us, but the visual for me is, I have this thing that's in my head, and I have this, I have what's in my heart, and my intention, and my values, and my job when I speak is to pull those together, so that by the time the thought, the [00:12:00] information comes out of my mouth, I have connected.

Terre: The words and the thoughts that I had in my head to what's in my heart.

Roula: It's very interesting how words can make us or break us in our relationship and our career and with our children. Today, I really would love to talk about something we all struggle with and don't know if it's beneficial for us at not or not. And that is the small talks. What brought this to my mind is conversations I have with other people, people who avoid maybe social events because they don't want to do small talks, even avoid the coffee at the office because it involves small talks.

Roula: It leaves us sometimes awkward after a meeting because we don't know, do we have to do a small talk or not? And for me, mostly at this time, I'm moving to a new city, [00:13:00] New street, new neighbors, new everything. Knowing myself, I will do small talks. I just don't know if I have the energy for them, and what benefit they will be for me.

Roula: This is why I decided that today, I'd like us to talk about, to start, because this is going to take us somewhere, I'm sure, to start talking about small talks. What are they, and how should we look at them? That's a great question. Well, 

Terre: let's start with, I don't see anything small at all about those types of connections.

Terre: What you're really speaking about is how we connect with others. And that's a basic human need is for us to connect with others. Not small, I see it. I wish we could reframe it and say that it's me talk or the talk or connection talks. When I think about that, I'll, I'll go back to your, if I may, your choice of words [00:14:00] that you chose to say when you move to the new city.

Terre: And again, I hear this all the time when people are in the workplace or what have you, I have to, or after the meeting, do I have to stay and talk to somebody more about this? What if we reframe that to we get to? You get to connect with new people in your community. You get to engage with them in a conversation that might be a short amount of time.

Terre: Maybe that's why we call it small. It is a brief conversation. You get to engage in that conversation in order to connect with them on some level. We get to engage in conversation in the workplace. In order to get to know our colleagues better, and then that makes more for more robust meetings in the future.

Terre: That's how we have a much better dialogue and and even how we disagree better is because we've engaged in these connections. We can't underestimate the value of those [00:15:00] connections. And I'll take that another to another place. I just coached somebody today about this. And that is that sort of networking slash relationship mapping.

Terre: That's what you're doing right now. You're mapping relationships around your community and in the workplace. People hopefully are mapping relationships. And our way to do that is to engage in these connections. Again, nothing small about it. And to relieve the anxiety of doing it, because what you're explaining is real.

Terre: I mean, I have people who say that all the time. I have to go this networking thing after work or what have you. Change it and think about what you, that you get to do that. And in doing that, you get to relate to others. on a different level. Each of those connections takes it up a few notches and then gets to an exploration that you didn't even know was possible.

Terre: And all of a sudden now your world is [00:16:00] different and more wide open and your community is more connected by the effort that you're making. 

Roula: What's the secret of starting a small talk? What should we master to succeed in it? 

Terre: Hmm, well First and foremost is that it's not about you. That's a tricky part. I like to say your goal is to be more interested than interesting.

Terre: I come to the conversation with you and I want to be interesting, then I'm going to tell you all about where I've been and what I've done, and I'm going to leave the small talk connection from, from my own interest to you. And when I come to be interested, truly interested, from my heart in how you came to be in this community, and what you enjoy doing, and how you spend your days, and how I might be of assistance to you, and who else I might connect you to, then I'm able to relate to you on a [00:17:00] deeper level.

Terre: Interested, interesting. And to answer your question, I feel like there are a few key components to this. to doing these types of connections well. One, if at all possible, do a little research. If it's in the work environment, somebody you haven't met before, go on LinkedIn, find out. You did a little research about me before we got on this call, right?

Terre: Great. So you do a little research, even your neighbor, how long they've lived there, what, what somebody else has told you, and now you have something, a thread to connect the two of you. And whether it's work or personal, find, if you can, it's not always the case, sometimes you just meet up with a person you can.

Terre: But if you can, find, do a little research and have some information. And then use that information, first and foremost, to weave the thread of connection. What is it that you and I might have in common? And I'm going to ask questions to get, to get at that. And to, to peel back the layers of [00:18:00] what it is we might have in common.

Terre: And I'll ask questions about what inspires you or what interests you. And now I'm, I'm engaging you in the conversation. And then as appropriate, I'll share bits and pieces about me that relates to what you're telling me about you. When I'm doing that, I'm, I'm paying attention to not comparing so much my situation to yours, but relating my situation to yours or my interest to yours.

Roula: Can you give me an example on not comparing but relating? Because we all fall into this confusing thing. 

Terre: Well, you recently moved, I recently moved, and you're telling me about your move, let's say, and I, when I'm comparing, I'm saying, well, at least you didn't move as far as I did, and I'm comparing how far you moved to how far I moved, whereas if I'm relating, I'm, I'm asking more questions about what challenges you had, and I'm, I'm [00:19:00] sharing the challenges I have related to those, and, or related to even the distance, and I'm not comparing, like, My move was easier or harder than your move, but more that I can relate to them.

Roula: And what else? Is there anything else that we need to master? Well, a couple 

Terre: more things in that relationship building and that connecting is that you go along in the conversation. I have two key things that I like to do before the end is Would you like to chat again, or should we wait for our paths to cross, or would you be open to speaking on a more regular basis?

Terre: And if so, what might that cadence be? That's one thing. And then the second is to broaden your network, to always ask, Is there anyone else you would feel I should speak to, or who would you suggest I also connect with? Or do you, in your case, do you have such and such neighbor and [00:20:00] would you be willing to introduce me to them or anything related to broadening your reach?

Roula: This is a very human behavior and it's not really a question as much as it's a feeling that we have when we're doing these small talks. We're not talking about ourselves, we're showing being interested in the other. There are moments, the small talks until we train ourselves to accept it. In the beginning, it feels painful to leave the small talk when the other person did not show any interest in us.

Roula: And we still have to get ourselves to conclude with keeping in touch and so on. What's your advice on this one? 

Terre: I'm glad you brought that up, because I left out a sort of a key piece in the success of such talks, and that is, as much as I'm saying, don't be in it to be interesting, be in it to be [00:21:00] interested, relate to what the information the other person is telling you.

Terre: Great. And have your elevator pitch prepared. What is it that is in your heart that you truly want to share with the other person? Have those couple of key points. Not the entire story of your life, but what are those couple of key points that are seeds? The seeds that you'd like to plant in the conversation.

Terre: That hopefully would then lead to an additional conversation and more interaction. Have that at the ready. That's part of your preparation. 

Roula: That's great advice. I did not think of elevator pitch in small talks. Well, not so small. The more we talk about them, I realized our fear of them makes them much more bigger than how we describe them.

Roula: So we're having a small talk. And at the moment, we don't have anything to say, but we [00:22:00] don't want to leave it awkward. What do we do? Meaning silence? Yes, we're always scared of silence. We mess 

Terre: it up so much. Here's why I think people are first and foremost afraid of silence is that we don't have silence.

Terre: I don't have silence in my own head. In my own head, I might be thinking, what are you going to ask me next? Or is my tea's already getting cold? Or like, just that we don't have silence in our own spells, and we're not accustomed to that. And then now silence with the other person feels very awkward. And so that the number 1 way to invite silence is when you ask a question, you ask someone and we'll get to questions in a little bit.

Terre: I hope. When you ask a question, you And the person's contemplating it. And if you're not silent, you don't give them enough [00:23:00] opportunity for that contemplation and to really say, to put their words together and share with you what they want to share. By the way, you're incredibly good at that. As a, as an interviewer, you're incredibly good at that.

Terre: I can, I already can tell in this conversation. Allowing the silence so that the person can move into that space at their own, at their own, um, pace. That's what it's about. But, but honestly, the silencing of one's own narrative is what has to happen first. Because if you don't come to the conversation being fully present, then Your ability to allow that silence is very much compromised 

Roula: to her, not giving the space for the silence is killing the conversation or giving the space.

Roula: Yes, giving the space. [00:24:00]

Terre: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Giving the space. And it, it's awkward. For me, I, you can already tell, I talk a mile a minute, very, very quickly. And it's a learned attribute to force oneself to appreciate the silence and to, let's say we are having tea. Well, I'm having tea. I don't know what you're having.

Terre: Oh, I'm having tea, Camilla and Jasmine. Very nice. I'm having Earl Grey. Crème Brûlée Earl Grey. 

Roula: Crème Brûlée. Very French. 

Terre: If we were in a café, and we're sitting there and other things were going on, it would be more natural for us to have a moment of silence. Maybe you just finished asking me something, and I'm watching the young couple walk by, and I'm contemplating my answer to you.

Terre: It would be more natural. To invite that silence and maybe you're as we were talking your phone buzzed or something and then we're going to have a moment while [00:25:00] you're just checking in or something and so it's, it's, I think it's easier to invite the silence when you're in person. And hopefully, but either way, it's, it's a challenge and people say, oh, it's like crickets and on the stage when I'm on the stage and I ask a question or I want to show of hands.

Terre: I have to say. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6 in my own head, because I, I, I'm so apt to wanna race forward and not allow the contemplation time. So I guess this is the easy answer is to think of silence as an opportunity for deeper contemplation for yourself and for the other person. 

Roula: Is there anything more you want to tell me about silence and tell the listeners?

Terre: Well, to work on the silencing of your own inner narrative first. 

Roula: How, how we do this? Any practical tips? 

Terre: Excellent question. Is that I would have a practice, a mindfulness [00:26:00] practice. I actually just finished listening to years and years ago. I read it and now it's been revised. John Kabat Zinn's book. And he writes, I think it's called wherever you go, there you are.

Terre: And he, he's pretty well known as a mindfulness practitioner and he gives some really easy tips on silencing that narrative and being present. It's all about the more you do it, the easier it is. My ability to come and be present in this interview hinges on, with back to back calls before and then a call after, hinges on my daily mindfulness meditation practice.

Terre: And my ability to now pull that, that structure at will, right, in a moment before I get on the call. The more you practice, the easier that becomes. 

Roula: I'm not practicing enough. I must get on, get on this horse and practice meditation, [00:27:00]mindfulness, mindfulness. 

Terre: It's a lifelong journey. It truly is. It's a lifelong journey.

Terre: It 

Roula: feels like there are so many things that we have to learn to keep improving ourselves and our personal skills. And it's, yeah, it's a journey. It makes us happy because we're working on ourselves. So I don't see it as a problem. Before we move to asking questions, is there more things you want to share about silence?

Terre: Yeah, I would say any skill that you, you just mentioned there, we have a lot of opportunities and things to change. What accelerates that change is when we reflect upon it back to that self awareness. When I reflect upon every day, when I reflect upon my ability to do this thing that I've been wanting to change or wanting to do better at is what helps me to do more of it.

Terre: At the end of the day, if I want to be a better listener or I want to be. I want [00:28:00] to practice more silence, the end of each day, I'm going to contemplate the degree to which I invited silence for myself and for others I interacted with today. How did I do with that? What am I proud of as far as how I invited silence?

Terre: And when I give myself that positive reinforcement, that's an accelerant, let's say, to me doing more of it. 

Roula: I can't wait for tomorrow to indulge myself with some silence practice. We're talking about silence, but it gets me excited to do it, to practice it tomorrow. How awesome is this?

Roula: Before I move into asking you, helping me and the listeners on addressing and asking the right questions, I want to tell you [00:29:00] a small story. Why asking questions plays a role in the reason why I'm making a podcast. For almost 23 years living in the Netherlands, I lost the curiosity. In asking people in hearing from people sharing information, knowledge, experiences.

Roula: I lost it because people are individual. They want to be in their own world. They don't want to share that they want to talk. Asking question felt like I'm intruding into their lives and their privacies. What are the skills and the good questions? What makes it a good question over and over again? 

Terre: No, I absolutely love that.

Terre: A, you have that curiosity. Well, and that you have the self awareness to realize that It was waning. For whatever reason, your curiosity [00:30:00] was waning and your, maybe it was the people, circumstance, what have you, but that your desire to be curious and that, that's another human trait is that we are, we're curious, we're a curious species.

Terre: How do we not put people off in our question asking and, and get into the conversation where we can lead to another question and so on and so forth?

Terre: First, try very hard not to ask questions that start with why. When I ask you a question that starts with why, why did you do this, or even why did you move here, or why did you choose this community, or what have you, I might not intend it, but there might be a bit of implied judgment. When I say why, like I might be saying, why did you move here as opposed to here?

Terre: You had options. And why. Even when it's not the intention, has the ability to imply judgment. Don't do it. Don't risk it. Don't risk it [00:31:00] by asking the why. Start your questions with what, and how, or tell me. And that makes it open ended, and then it, it invites a deeper exploration. When, when it's brand new and nothing, I'll, I'll share with you a couple of questions.

Terre: Well, I mean, even politically, why did you vote for that person? What have you. That implies judgment. Whereas I could say, instead I could say, What's most important to you with the current issues? Or, how do you believe this candidate will uphold the issues that are important to you? That's way different than me asking you why you support, because that The why can feel judgy, like I have a different opinion, whereas if I'm coming from a place of curiosity, I'm starting my questions with what I know.

Roula: The why leads to the answer starting with because. And now it's making more sense to me too, why it feels like a judgment, like I have to defend my [00:32:00] action. 

Terre: Exactly 

Roula: right. 

Terre: And my question would have been better to you, had it been, what resonates with you about what I just said? As opposed, because I asked you a yes, no question.

Terre: Does this resonate with you? And it doesn't invite further explanation, exploration, whereas if I would have said, what resonates with you about leading with why, or not leading with why, then you would have, you may have naturally gone there. Does that make sense? I was going to say, does that make sense, but you're not a descendant, I know it does.

Terre: Here are a few other questions that I wanted to share. Yes. When you're, when we're, we're going back now to this small talk or this engaging with others connections, we're going to abandon small talk and say connecting. When we're connecting with others. I love asking someone, what would they like to tell me about themselves?

Terre: Or what do they wish others knew about them? I like, what are you most proud of? How do you fill yourself up? [00:33:00] What do you do for your own well being? Any questions that get them to, you know, really want to share with you because you're leaning in and you're being very interested. 

Roula: I love these questions. I wouldn't have a straight away an answer.

Roula: I would have to go in the silence mode to think about it. 

Terre: Well, see how this all works is when we're asking more deeply curious questions, then we have the opportunity to invite more silence and allow the person to finate a little bit and be able to feel into what you're asking and then provide an answer.

Terre: That makes a true connection. Then it doesn't feel painful and awkward and what have you, when you're really honoring that you're in it for the connection, the silence is okay, the deeper probing questions are okay, all of it is going to make a deeper connection. 

Roula: What more? Tell me [00:34:00] more. I can't get enough from this question asking tips.

Terre: Well, I love that you just said, tell me more, because that's another key thing. You ask a what question, a how question, and then you provide the opportunity for silence, the person answers, and I talk about this, we'll talk about this a little bit when we speak about active listening, is that then your, resist the urge to fill in with the information that you want to share, and the way to resist the urge is to say, tell me more.

Terre: You've asked some good questions or a good question, the person starts to tell you something, and then a fantastic thing to do as a, as an expert listener is then to say, tell me more. That truly represents that you're interested, you're curious, you desire to know more and go deeper into this connection.

Terre: That was one of my things on my list, and you did it. I'm so glad with it.[00:35:00]

Terre: Here are a couple more for deeper inquiry. I'll give you three more questions. What's the greatest lesson that you've learned? Or if you're, let's say it's in your community, what's the greatest thing you've learned about this neighborhood? Or, you can make that specific about lessons learned. Tell me what you're currently learning, or what you're, What your current exploration is focused on and what is it that that fills them up is what you're getting at and how have challenges shaped your life.

Terre: If I really want to deeply know you, I want to share my challenges and I want to relate. That your challenges to my challenges, and then we're going to go deeper. In our connection, 

Roula: I do have a question that wasn't on my mind coming into this conversation. One of the difficult conversation is with some when someone is grieving, what's the right question or thing to say when someone tell us [00:36:00] in the small talk or in this moment of connection talk, what do we say for someone grieving?

Terre: And so that's an excellent question again. And I'm actually going to turn to a certain page in my book because I now say a couple of particular things and. When I wrote this section in my book, I, um, wrote it in collaboration with a very dear friend of mine who lost her son. He was, he had cancer as a toddler, and then he went into remission for 10 years, and at 15 years old, he died.

Terre: And she's learned so much through that process. Oh, and then, right when he died, her other son got the same cancer. Like, craziness. I've learned much from her. She shares in my book, she shares very specifically, first of all, the crazy things that people do say that are more hurtful or more upsetting than, and they're not meant to be, they're just that you're, you're [00:37:00] right to ask that question because it's awkward and we don't know what to say.

Terre: The two that I say a lot are, I grieve with you as nearly as I can. And the reason to say it that way is, I can't, you have your own experience and I haven't had this experience. And I agree with you as nearly as I can. And I say, I'm holding you in my heart. And then if, if you don't mind, I'll look at some of the others that Lisa recommended, because here we go.

Terre: Well, she absolutely says, tell me more when the person is speaking about their grief, just straight up what you offered earlier. Tell me more. Don't feel that you have to fill in the spaces of what you believe or what you're assuming in the circumstance. I agree with you as nearly as I can, which I told you I'm, I'm with you at heart.

Terre: This is a tender time. You might say this is a tender time. Tell me more. And when I'm, I said I'm holding you close to my heart, I might follow that up with, [00:38:00] be gentle with yourself. I'm not, like, that's the closest I would get to giving any advice because we're not in the business. We're not having the experience.

Terre: The only thing I can say from my heart is be gentle. This is a tender time. Be gentle with yourself. And then I want to see how I can help. And it, she goes into great detail about not saying, can I bring you this? Or can I do this or whatever? Just do it. Just be helpful. And yeah. And choose something. But here are the few things to avoid saying.

Terre: I think this is important. He's in a better place. God needed another angel. You're strong. I could never handle this. And you just need to have more faith. Whether you're religious or not, those are not helpful things for the grieving person, the grieving parent in this case, to hear. Thank you for bringing that up.

Roula: Yeah. Thanks for, for reading from the book. I'm touched by the story of your friend.[00:39:00]

Roula: We go into active listening. We're ready for it. Okay. Yes. Active listening is the hardest thing on earth. We don't know how to do it. We're not taught how to do it. We're scared of it. We're stubborn to learn it. These are my takes on it. 

Terre: For sure. Well, and here's why, and we touched on this a little earlier, is that we're not actively listening to ourselves.

Terre: We're not actively listening to ourselves. We haven't created the space and the time to actively listen to ourselves, and we don't stand a chance to actively listen to others. And part of that is because when I get in conversation with you, if I haven't [00:40:00] quieted the voice, the internal narrative, and I don't know how to do that, then that's still playing.

Terre: Well, that incredibly inhibits my ability to listen to you when I'm still listening to this other dialogue that's going on here. That's the first thing in that I identify a couple of key things and one is presence. We talked about be present. Okay, great. I'm here right in front of you, but I mean, be present, be able to lower the voice, the internal dialogue and be present in this conversation.

Terre: And whether that's take a few deep breaths, here's one of my favorites. It's just to, again, people can't see us, but I'm rubbing my index finger and my thumb together. And I do this when I want, I'm racing from thing to thing to thing. And now I want to be present. It's a. It's a way to activate that presence is I rub it until I can feel the ridges on the thumb and the forefinger and I can feel it and I do it for less than a minute.

Terre: And that's my indication to the presence. [00:41:00] I can do that under the table. I'm doing it right now under the table. If I was in the boardroom and I could say, gosh, my. I just was in Hawaii for a minute and now I want to come back and I want to be present and I might do that secretly. I might do that. Be present.

Terre: And that's the number one. Number two is no distractions. I had a call come in while we were talking. I had my phone on silent. I still had knew that it buzzed. I knew there was a, the real no distractions would have been not to have the phone in the room. We are, we need to condition ourselves to avoid the distractions because they've built up over the course of time that the distractions today compared to the distractions 10 years ago, 20 years ago are infinitely greater the ways in which the sounds the computer can make the alerts on the phone that my wrist, my wrist fuzzing, the distractions are at 20, [00:42:00] 30 fold what they were a decade ago.

Terre: No distractions. Next is two that I lumped together, and that's words and actions. And from a word standpoint, that if I am going to say something while I'm actively listening, that it's more of a paraphrase, or it's more supportive, I hear you. I'm choosing words that are only supporting you. Supporting and encouraging and acknowledging and ensuring that I'm in the conversation.

Terre: Or that I am. Endeavoring to understand, maybe I need to ask a clarifying question, and I might say, I hear you saying that such and such, would that be correct? When I'm actively listening, I'm only going to be speaking in the middle of what you're telling me for clarification and to show support and acknowledgement.

Terre: Those are the words. The flip side of that are my actions. If I'm arms crossed and I'm leaning back, I'm not engaged. Whereas if [00:43:00] I'm leaning forward and I'm nodding my head and I'm looking directly at you, those are all the actions that indicate I'm actively listening to you. I'm not doing this and looking about, doing something else, I'm, I'm in the zone with you actively listening.

Terre: And then the last one is to not interrupt. You're also brilliant at that. Not interrupting, and I said this earlier, when you, when you have the urge to interrupt, to, to flip that to. Tell me more. There's this urge, there's this thing that you want to do because oftentimes we're doing that because we have this thing to compare.

Terre: We might even have something to relate. Hold that until the person has exhausted what it is that they want to share with you. And then again, if you're starting to do it, say, tell me more. And that's your signal to yourself that you're actively listening. That's it. Sounds pretty easy, doesn't it? 

Roula: Not that easy.[00:44:00]

Roula: It takes much effort and practice. I thought, I don't know how to formulate this. This Topic hits me deep down in my heart because I don't think I knew about active, active listening until I started having a communication problems with my daughters, not with my ex, not with my family, my parents, my husband, with my daughters, and I learned how to practice.

Roula: Of course, not perfect. Perfect at it, and I regret and correct, et cetera. It's just, I feel if we learn this from Hold on. When we learn this, I remember when we learned this at early stage, we take it with us, this takeaway to raise our children learning of active listening and mirroring the behavior for for the rest of us listening to this podcast.

Roula: [00:45:00] It takes a lot of awareness and will to make this action happen. 

Terre: It does. And it goes hand in hand with the desire to be more curious and ask better questions and connect on a deeper level with, with others. When you do that, when you're, when you feel that that's who you want to be and how you want to show up in the world, that's all for naught.

Terre: Like you, you cannot accomplish that unless you're also prepared to actively listen. I can ask all those questions in the world, and I can be curious, and I can be, lean in and appear to be interested, but if I don't actively listen, where does that get me? It all goes hand in hand, and with your daughters even, asking starts with asking the right probing questions, and then allowing for the answers to come.

Terre: Allowing for there to be the right amount of silence. And then inviting in what they have to[00:46:00] say and practicing the active listening skills. All goes hand in hand to make us great communicators. That's my mission in life is that we all communicate at a higher level. 

Roula: This is what attracted me to talk to you and to your book.

Roula: It's an important topic. We have to keep talking about it. And the stories that I write for the podcast, and I had an interview, someone asked me, how did I survive the war? What made me strong? I said music. Every time we say the word silence and let's Accept the silence. I have in my head. Enjoy the silence song.

Roula: This is my mindfulness of our meditation. When I put myself in that space, um, music helped me to, to feel grounded, empty my head. And, uh, yeah, if people get inspired, maybe whenever they're in silence, let's think, enjoy the silence. I 

Terre: love that. And that was your mindfulness. That was you. [00:47:00] Being present with, with the song, with the, just what you were hearing and, and you were being an active listener.

Terre: See, that's the thing. We can do it. We can listen to all the lyrics of the words. We can feel the beat. We can really tune in when we want to. It's that we have so many distractions and much of an agenda, whether it's with our children or our colleagues or our neighbors, that it's, we've made it harder, we don't have an agenda when the song is playing.

Terre: It's Right? We have had this other things going on that complicate our ability to listen well to others. 

Roula: But it's 

Terre: fixable, 

Roula: it's all doable. It's fun, it can be fun. Yes, here we are. To summon up our important points, the connection talk, let's ditch small talks and call it connection talk. The power of silence, not to be scared of it, it's beautiful.

Roula: It's beautiful. Asking the right questions [00:48:00] and then actively listening. Empty our head from our narrative so that we can be present with the person. Did I register them correctly? 

Terre: Yes, you did. All of them. They're all interrelated. 

Roula: We have now some time to, if you'd like to indulge us with a few do's and don'ts in these beautiful and ugly words that we can use.

Roula: Or avoid. 

Terre: Right. Well, only because they minimize you. It doesn't help that internal narrative. And that's why they can be ugly. Let, let me begin with the overview that you just gave. Beautifully gave of the, all the other things it boils down to. Ask more, tell less. You know, ask more, tell less. And that goes to the be interested instead of interesting.

Terre: The act of listening. And. Providing the silence, all of that is what you'll be doing when you do that. Let's talk about a couple of the words. I shared a few [00:49:00] of the words that that might be limiting or minimizing. And I'm going to add a few more. One that I want to revisit is have to, as opposed to get to.

Terre: We are limiting our own mindset about what we're doing, or how we're showing up when we show up saying we have to do this, as opposed to we get to do this, and it. Feeling that you get to do something gives a sense of gratitude and you're in a space of abundance. My example is always you get to do the laundry.

Terre: Most people say, I like to do laundry. Well, the reality is in the event that you are privileged enough to have a wash machine and running water and access to detergent and clothes to wash in the first place, you get to do the laundry and see how that works. It puts us back to a place of abundance and gratitude, changing that thought process and focusing on what you get to do.

Terre: A couple of more. You offered yourself the [00:50:00] difference between if and when, when I say if I'm presenting uncertainty to you, when I say when I'm, I'm being more certain and I'm offering some confidence, more confidence to you. Another is but, replacing but with but. When we say but, we're, we're severing everything that went before, we're cutting it, as opposed to if you share with me something, something, something, and I say, yes, but this and this and this, then my thing is more important.

Terre: I've just cut yours off. And don't do that. You can share everything that you shared. And then I can say, and I would, would like to offer such and such, or I also feel strongly about such and such. It's an end situation. We're Many of the problems in the world today relate to us having a sense of this or that, not this and that.

Terre: And it leads us more to this place of coexisting and valuing [00:51:00] the perspectives of others. When we bridge, like if you think of, but is the scissors that cut things, then and is the glue that connects things. That one's very important to me. And, I think that's about it. I think I'll end this with, you can't change all these words at one time, but for as long, or end, for as long as you believe that, you will be right.

Terre: When you say you can't, I can't change these words, or I can't listen more expertly and such. For as long as you tell yourself can't about anything, you will be right. Change that word to I can. I can communicate at a higher level, and the way to do that is one word at a time. Think about the words that we've talked about, and maybe it's have to, or maybe it's if, maybe it's but, maybe it's some of the ones I offered earlier about probably, or I think, [00:52:00] and choose what you hear yourself saying more of, or ask a loved one, and then focus just on that one.

Terre: And give it a month, change it up, and then move to the next one. You can make a difference and you can communicate at a higher level. 

Roula: Everyone can. And I want to go back to you. To you. To all the reasons that made you write your book. And tell me more about how long did it take you to write the book? What is your motivator?

Roula: And what do you wish to, you already mentioned that you want to change how we speak to get to a better, higher level of communication. While when you were writing the book, you had something on your mind that is very strong. Can you share these things with me? 

Terre: Absolutely. It took me less than a year to write the book.

Terre: And the reason for [00:53:00] that is that it was already there. It was already inside of me. It was really about having the process to get it out. And I, that's for another podcast. I would love to speak about the process for writing a book because I believe anyone can write, particularly a non fiction book, about a topic that they are passionate about.

Terre: With some research and such and there's a lot of research in my books less than a year and I and I was very intentional about pulling in others the voice of others to to help me on things that I Wouldn't have been the expert on like the grief that we talked about. I talked about racism. I'm a white woman I had to help with some of the word information around microaggressions and such pronouns and how we address Transcript address anyone who wants to show up in their own skin.

Terre: And that might be different than how I show up. Let's understand that at a deeper level. I pulled in all the different experts in different areas [00:54:00] and, uh, felt very strongly. I did it in less than a year because I felt strongly about getting this message out. In the United States at the time, there was, this was 2020.

Terre: Early 2020, and there was a lot of racial tension, rightfully, and, and then there were politics that were unraveling, there was lots going on, and I, I almost, I have to tell you, I almost felt desperate about it, I almost thought, I can't write this book fast enough, because I, my message is important, for us to communicate at a higher level, and things continually unravel in the world, and the way that we pull it all back together, and weave our humanity together, is by communicating at a higher level.

Roula: Everyone feel concerned by the words we're saying and the impact they have. 

Terre: I would like to leave with saying that yours is the voice of humankind. When we feel the weight of that, [00:55:00] that each individual says mine is the voice of humankind, then let's use that voice wisely.