Speaker 1: 0:18

At the end of this episode, we have for you a book tip to give to your parents and to yourself. This helps apply the learnings from this episode, without being intrusive, to their agency and decision-making, and ourselves to learn how to prepare for the future. Welcome to the Life Affairs Podcast. This is a place where we share life experiences and the many lessons learned by just living. Join me to immerse ourselves and take a closer look at the stories that shaped and defined us. Just remember there's no judgment and a lot of understanding on today's episode of the Life Affairs Podcast. Welcome to this episode of the Life Affairs Podcast. Welcome to this episode created for everyone.

Speaker 1: 1:07

As we age, it's crucial to prepare our kids to look after us, relieving them of the worry and stress of making major life decisions on our behalf. This episode is also for families, siblings and the parents themselves. Instead of drifting apart due to uncertainty and arguments over caregiving, listen in. You don't have to do it alone and you can always learn to become a better caregiver. Build a support system ready to take over when needed. It is also for companies and HR specialists who want to make a change in their organization to support their employees in navigating not only maternity, parental and sick leave, but also caregiving leave for their parents. If you are fortunate, you'll have your parents alive and well for a very long time.

Speaker 1: 2:04

However, many of us struggle to enjoy this time. Caught up in managing their lives and making decisions for them, we often end up treating them like our first child. Caring for an elderly parent is similar to raising a first child. Caring for an elderly parent is similar to raising a first child. We worry, we're scared and sometimes we forget. They have their own minds and desires. We have no experience in how to do it. We might strip them of their authority over their lives, imposing our own decisions. This can be overwhelming, especially while balancing careers, children, partners and social lives. If you're living abroad, like me, and unable to care for your parents directly, you might feel you're missing out. I know I do. You want to be involved in their decisions, yet feel disconnected due to distance and different lifestyles. Sometimes your family might perceive you as out of touch with their reality.

Speaker 1: 3:09

For those actively caring for their parents, this episode is tribute to your effort, care and dedication. Thank you for pouring your love and attention into your mom, dad or both. It's not an easy task and this will help you put clear boundaries for yourself and voice what you need and what you desire without causing issues with your family. To make this entire episode full of practical tips and helpful, I have my guest, janice Goldman. Janice believes success comes from simplifying complex issues, particularly when managing the challenges of aging parents while maintaining a positive outlook for their adult children.

Speaker 1: 3:56

Janice's expertise combines academic knowledge from a master's degree in gerontology and her personal experience as a child of older parents. She looked after her parents who had Alzheimer. She has provided insights into enhancing seniors' quality of life. She is certified in the Mindset and Goal Setting by Jack Canfield. That is further enriching her approach in this matter. Her vision is to help children of aging parents navigate these challenges, offering support and information through presentations on successful aging and facilitating confidential family conversations to explore all options without judgment. This conversation is deep and covers many questions that you might have and some mindset that we can reconsider for a better quality of life for us and for our family. Join me in this family affair episode where walls can be broken down and bridges can be built. I want to begin with understanding from you when is the right time to talk to our parents about their wishes when they no longer can look after themselves.

Speaker 2: 5:20

So I'm going to give you an answer that you may think is a little bit crazy, but it's the truth. Way before they need to answer that question. This sort of process of aging, and that conversation should start when everybody is healthy. Everybody is healthy, I mean, the parents are in their 60s or 70s Just as a matter of course. Hey, what if? What would you want? What would be important to you? And the answer that they're going to give you at 60 or 70 may be a certain answer, but if you can continue to have that conversation when challenges occur, then that door is opened.

Speaker 2: 6:06

That conversation is already out there. It's not like, oh, we have to react to something that's happened. It's already out there and you can change your mind. There's nothing that says what I tell you when I'm 60 or 70 is what I want when I'm 80 or 90. It's not necessarily true, but that openness and that vulnerability has already begun and you can have that conversation much more easily.

Speaker 2: 6:34

You can also start talking about things like who would you want to take care of you? Where would you want to be buried when you pass away? Or what would you want to have at your funeral? Who would you want to have as the person who looks after those things for you. And again, it's non-threatening Everybody's healthy, everybody's good. There's no threat to it. When you do it in the midst of an event, people are nervous, people are upset, people don't know what to do. They just want an answer. They just want to do something, to feel like something's been done. So it's a very different emotional feeling and a very different reaction that you're going to get. So my answer really is when your parents are younger and healthy.

Speaker 1: 7:27

It's one of the most difficult conversations because parents don't want their children to worry about that Right and the children feel like they're already hurrying their parents old age while they're not there yet.

Speaker 2: 7:45

I think it can be feel that way, but what has to be the key in all of this, as far as I'm concerned, is the reason I'm asking you as your child is because I want to make sure that I, first of all, understand your wishes. Number two, want to make sure that it's something I can do for you, because I may not, I may not be able to do it, I may not be the right one, and it's non-threatening. And if, again, if these things are part of normal conversation, threatening. And if, again, if these things are part of normal conversation, then it's a lot easier down the road when it gets harder, when harder decisions need to be made.

Speaker 2: 8:29

At least everybody knows. Hey, I've been heard, people are thinking about what I want, we're prepared, we have powers of attorney, we have a will, we have, you know, living will, whatever it is that you need to have documented, it's done, it's ready, we all know where it is, we all know who's responsible. Because the truth is, none of us knows, when we wake up in the morning, what's going to happen that day. Nobody knows Warning what's going to happen that day.

Speaker 1: 9:03

Nobody knows. In your opinion, would this be the right moment for the?

Speaker 2: 9:11

siblings to get together and discuss it as a family. Yeah, so there's a couple of things that I suggest. One is, just as at a family meal, just a sort of informal meal just kind of look around and see what's going on. Are there any warning signs that you should be seeing, you know? Is food spoiling in the fridge? Is there enough food? Is there too much food? Is the home clean to the degree that it always has been? Are your parents taking care of themselves physically, like they always have been? Are there any incidents of things that you should be concerned about? Is there unopened mail, things that you wouldn't maybe normally look for?

Speaker 2: 9:55

And I tell people to do this also, if you don't see your family very often at holidays, because it's a time where everybody gets together Don't just look in the living room or the or the room that you're in eating. Go in the bedroom, go in the bathroom, because sometimes people will make that living space that they think you're going to see look all lovely and you go in their bedroom or bathroom and it's a different story because they don't have the energy to do it all. So look for warning signs. Are your parents or your loved ones forgetting things? Are they missing appointments, whatever that is? I actually have a checklist that I have for people, and if you look at stuff and you start to see little things to worry about, that's when I would start sitting down with the siblings first and saying hey, did you notice this? Did you see that I'm concerned?

Speaker 2: 10:53

The goal in any of these conversations that you have at any point is for the well-being of the whole family. It's not just the well-being of the whole family, it's not just the well-being of the parent, it's the well-being of the whole family, because if everybody is running around like a chicken without a head on for the parents, they're not doing themselves any good, they're going to burn out, they're going to get sick, and then there's nobody left to take care of the parent, right? So I do think that it's always good for siblings to say I don't know, I noticed something. Did you see that? Is that something we should be worried about? How can we all come together as a family and open this conversation?

Speaker 1: 11:57

In the end, once this conversation is done and hopefully the kids will get enough information to help them look after their parents afterwards, is it mostly successful and the siblings get along and find someone to represent them.

Speaker 2: 12:15

No, I would say in most families there's some issue. It's either I don't want to do it, I don't know how to do it, I don't see what you're seeing, or it's overwhelming for me I can't even deal with what you're seeing, I don't want to approach mom and dad, so you do it, I'll sit there, but I'm not going to say anything.

Speaker 2: 12:47

You could do it, I'm not going to do it, you do it. So there's a lot. There's also family dynamic. Oh, you, of course you don't want to do it. You're the golden child and you don't want to lose that spot in the bell, or you're, but you know how to do it. You're the one that's good with money and you're the one that's good with whatever and mom likes you best. All of these sort of childhood thoughts about the family, the sibling dynamic itself can play into it and you know, even as we grow up, that still plays a part of it.

Speaker 2: 13:26

I think the biggest stumbling block in many families is the parents themselves. Oh, what do you mean? I'm fine, there's nothing wrong. I don't want to talk about this, because if I talk about it, it makes it real or there's nothing to talk about, or everything is good and I don't need any help. So that's why I'm saying these are conversations that aren't just a one time conversation.

Speaker 2: 13:54

You have to start very slowly and move into it over time, and sometimes in families you have to bring in another person from the outside who can say, hey, this is why your kids are concerned about you, and kids, this is what your parents would like. Are you hearing each other? Are you hearing each other? Is your goal, in the end, what's best for everybody in the family? And who can do what? Because I may not be great in the financial arena, or I may not be great in the hands-on thing, but I can do something else.

Speaker 2: 14:40

Or in many families they don't live in the same place, so it falls upon the kids who live closest to the parents. And the kids who don't live close can't do hands-on. I mean, it's just, it's an impossibility. They can't do the doctor appointments, they can't do searching out option living options or things like that, but they can do finances. They can do other things. They can come for respite care when that key caregiver is needing to have a break, so and they can keep in touch with the parents. There's a lot that can be done even if you are not living in the same vicinity as your parent, but you have to figure that out as a family.

Speaker 1: 15:28

There are two challenging things I hear also from this conversation and I would like to take them separately. The first challenging part is let's say the conversation has been done and the parent is today needing help. Parents can be stubborn, yes, resisting, yes. It end up in an argument and emotions, tears.

Speaker 2: 15:56

Yes. So again, even in those situations, I suggest that people keep coming back to the same goal. The goal is for you, for us as a family, to have the highest quality of life, and your opinion of what that might be or how to achieve it could be different from ours, as your children might be, or how to achieve it could be different from ours, as your children. So again, let's bring in somebody who is objective. Let's bring in your doctor. Let's bring in a lawyer if you have legal questions. Let's bring in a financial advisor if you have financial issues. We don't have to have all the answers for the situation, but we can be the coordinators, we can be the people who say all right, let's look at.

Speaker 2: 16:48

Do you have a will? No, okay, well, we're going to figure out how to do that. Do you have powers of attorney? No, do you have a particular doctor that you go to that you trust their opinion? And sometimes, doctor that you go to that you trust their opinion, and sometimes that authority saying, yep, you know what, it's time to look at care options or whatever. They can hear it better from somebody out there, even though they're saying the exact same thing. It's a different authority and they don't have the background or the family dynamic. In the family. It's a voice of authority and sometimes that's what's needed.

Speaker 1: 17:27

That's great advice, because children argue, everyone thinks they're experts in their field and want to have the authority and the saying. It becomes a mess. Indeed, that's great advice to get experts in each field. Yeah, so the next section that I hear is the caregiver. The caregiver and the ones who cannot be physically present to help, and those who can physically be present. There are a few things in this topic. I worry about the caregiver well-being, but also about the caregiver accepting without feeling they're not doing it all correctly. This is a part of it.

Speaker 2: 18:19

Yes. So what can happen is you have a sibling that lives near the parent and you live somewhere else and that sibling does not feel that they are capable physically, emotionally, whatever that is of caregiving. It happens, it happens. So then you have to figure out as a family what other options are there so you can bring somebody in, you know somebody, a home care helper, that can help if that's necessary or possible.

Speaker 2: 19:01

Are there other people that are not, I'll say, direct family members that could help? Could it be your parents', sister or brother? Could it be friends of theirs? Could it be people in your faith community that could come in and help? Could it be that you have to start looking for alternate living arrangements? Maybe that's the best option. So the caregiver does not necessarily need to be your child, it just needs to be part of the plan. And again, it's what is the best thing for everybody, and if you're not physically or emotionally capable of taking care of your parent, then you're not there's. It's not a judgment, it's just what is. But then let's look further and see what other options are there that can step in.

Speaker 1: 19:56

What are the common and apparent things? Behavior, emotions, well-being, matters that can take their toll on the caregiver.

Speaker 2: 20:07

So I would say the majority of children of aging parents are in the sandwich generation. They likely have younger children of their own or college age children of their own, children of their own or college age children of their own. They're working, they've got their parents and they may even have a grandparent. I look in my own family. My daughter is in her forties. She has children, she has me, and my father passed away not that long ago so she had her grandfather and that's a lot on your plate to try and juggle three or four generations of people plus your own spouse that you want to have a relationship with. So there's a lot of relationships down that road and that can be very problematic, trying to have all the balls up in the air and not letting anything fall down. It's going to fall down. It's either going to be a relationship that's going to suffer or it's going to be your mental or physical health or your job performance or something, or something, or something.

Speaker 2: 21:18

So again, it's well-being, well-being, well-being. And I always use the analogy of when you're on an airplane and the oxygen comes down. You have to put it on yourself first if you want to help somebody else. If you aren't healthy and strong. You can't help anybody else. So it's your self care, it's your well being, whether you need to go to the gym or you need to go and speak to a therapist, or you need to go to a support group of other people who are caring for their parents or whatever that is spiritual life, whatever that might be for you to recharge your batteries. But what we're afraid of is to say I need help. We are afraid to say I need help, especially if you're an only child and there is nobody else that you can think of off the top of your head that can help. But if you don't do that in some way, either find a respite care or whatever you're going to eventually burn out and that becomes problematic.

Speaker 1: 22:30

That becomes problematic the siblings who are not directly looking after this parent. What are your tips for these siblings to support the caregiver, knowing that it can be challenging, because there are times that the caregiver doesn't accept or it's not what they need. Various things can happen.

Speaker 2: 22:51

For sure. So if you are the sibling that is not there with hands-on care, first of all check in on the sibling who is hey, how are you doing? Are you okay? Do you need anything? Can I help? Oh, I'm going to make a time where I can come and give you some time off when is good for you.

Speaker 2: 23:13

You know, look at that person also as needing caregiving. Even though they're the caregiver, they need caregiving too by their circle of support. It's also hard if you're not there and you can't see with your own eyes what's going on with my parent. So you're trusting that that caregiver is kind of the bridge between everybody. Oh, mom and dad had an appointment, or mom had an appointment, or she had a fall or whatever that is, or I talked to the doctor, or whatever situation is.

Speaker 2: 23:50

It's hard for the other person who is not there without eyeballs on the situation to know what, how, how are things going, is everybody okay? So there's that worry of that person who is not in. That you know right there with them, and that can be stressful for that sibling as well, because it's not that they don't want to be involved necessarily. They can't in the same, in the same way. So, again, that person may also need support from other people around to say I wish, I wish I could be there.

Speaker 2: 24:21

And there's, there's guilt, there's all the emotions wrapped up for everybody, and it's not always easy to sit down with your sister or brother and say I feel really guilty that I can't care for mom and dad because I live, you know, 200 miles away. I wish I could be there more, or I wish I could do more, or I wish I knew more, or whatever that is. So we have to acknowledge in each other that I don't care who it is or what you do or what you don't do. There's a whole host of emotions that are wrapped up in it.

Speaker 1: 25:00

What I find challenging with my own family is that there is my mother and my sister are looking after my mom. There is so much that we don't know, because daily there are things happening. My mom's health is going backward, she's forgetting even more. She has so many medicines and doctors and things that are not visible Right. So when we have the intention to give a break to the caregiver, we also feel lost, like where do we begin? And it's exhausting for the caregiver to name all the things and all the risks that can happen. How can this be mitigated?

Speaker 2: 25:45

And you're right. It's easy when you're living with somebody or near somebody and you know the little ins and outs. Oh well, mom or dad, if you give them this kind of food, you have to cut it up in a certain way or else they can choke. Or they like to go to the park at three in the afternoon because they like to watch the kids come home from school, or whatever that is. And it is hard to write down or to know of every little ins and out. It's never going to be perfect and you have to be okay with the fact it's not going to be perfect.

Speaker 2: 26:19

If you're giving the meds, if you're having socialization, if you're doing as much as you can do, you have to be okay with that. And generally it's not for an extended period of time and even if it's for a month, everybody will get used to it. People will get used to it and there's possibility that in that month, if you're there caregiving and the other caregiver is away or gone on holiday, there could be an event that nobody has ever dealt with. Nobody knows what to do, or that caregiver doesn't know what to do. You have to know who the resources are. You have to know who the healthcare providers are and whatever that might be, so that if something should occur, you know who to go to, because that can happen for anybody. Right, it can happen for anybody. So everybody has to be okay. That it's.

Speaker 1: 27:18

It's never going to be perfect let's make a lot of conversations easier, of course, and like finding a path where everyone, as soldiers, will follow the lead, because a caregiver is, in a way, the leader. They know so much and they build this experience. When we have our first child, we learn, but then we have the second and the third.

Speaker 2: 27:44

We only have one parent right and there's only one caregiver learning how to look after them you know, and, as you said, when we have children, that first child may not get the most perfect care, because we're experimenting, we don't know when the second child comes along. Oh yeah, when my child is crying, I can take them for a walk, I can put on music, but that first child, you don't know what to do. You're going crazy trying to figure out how do I, how do I do this? And then you find out that each child is different. So you're caring for one parent and then you care for the other, and what you do for one parent doesn't work for the other. And you're like I don't understand. Now what do I do? Oh, it's a different person. I have to treat them differently because their needs and wants can be very different.

Speaker 2: 28:41

Both of my parents had Alzheimer's disease very different, very different ways of it showing and I had to get used to okay, mom needs this, dad needs this, and doing what was needed. And the thing that I tell people and I don't have any embarrassment is I have a background in gerontology and I struggled. I didn't know always what to be doing. I didn't always know who to go to or how to take care of it or not get so overwhelmed that I just wanted to throw in the towel and I know what I'm doing supposedly, but everybody gets I don't know what the right word is wrapped up in it, and it's okay, let yourself off the hook. There's no perfection here. You do your best and everybody has to be okay with doing their best. And trial and error, try. I'm going to try that. Oh, that didn't work. Try something else.

Speaker 1: 29:50

Speaking about Alzheimer, do you find that when a parent or parents, when it's physical illness, it has less emotional stress and toll to it than when it's dementia or Alzheimer's?

Speaker 2: 30:07

I think it's different. I don't think it's less. I think if it's a physical thing let's say the person has cancer I think people worry a lot about that because the word itself has so much emotion attached to it and depends on you know what kind of cancer it is and how far along it is. So I think people struggle with that. I think people struggle with people who have heart disease because they think, oh, don't do too much, but do enough that you need to do. Are you doing the right thing? Are you doing the wrong thing?

Speaker 2: 30:45

You know people that have mobility issues. You want to make sure that their environment is such that they can maximize their own independence. But there may come a time where somebody loses their ability to drive and then they're cognitively fine but physically they're not. So I think it's just different. Alzheimer's has other things because it's not just the sort of physicality of the person, it's what we see as the person themselves, which is their mind. If they're losing their memory or their personality is changing, they're no longer the person we knew them to be, and that's a whole other area of emotion and feelings. So I think it's just different. And if somebody has both, it's very challenging. If they have physical and cognitive issues, it's even more stressful.

Speaker 1: 31:50

Can you tell us more about the difference between Alzheimer's and dementia? After that, I have a few specific questions on how the parents start behaving and what's the best way to approach it.

Speaker 2: 32:06

Okay, so this is the best explanation and somebody gave it to me and I thought this is really smart. If you think of dementia like the word fruit and you think of Alzheimer's like the word apple, it's one kind of dementia. Alzheimer's is one kind of dementia. There are generally four major kinds. Alzheimer's is a disease of exclusion. So if it's a vascular dementia, then you can see it. In the blood vessels, you can see that there's constriction, so you can see it. If it's Lewy body dementia, there's very specific behavioral issues where you know it's different. Same with frontal, temporal it's different. So when somebody is having memory issues, they're looking for all of the signs of the other three. When none of them are there, then it's Alzheimer's. So Alzheimer's is a disease of exclusion. You look for all of the physical signs of the other three. If none of them are there, that's what it is.

Speaker 1: 33:23

Okay, in a way it's kind of clear. We hear a lot of elderly people have Alzheimer's and majority that I see or grew up with I haven't heard of the word Alzheimer's. It was more dementia. Yes, what I noticed is that I'll give you an example. When I visit my mom, I see her looking at me and I see that she's trying to remember who am I. Why am I even in her bedroom and I don't know what to do. I think do I let her train her memory and guess who I am? Do I give her hints or do I tell her who I am? She also could be maybe having a dream or thinking she's in a place that doesn't exist, and then my sister is trying to convince her that she's safe and she's in her bed. And these things happen very often with elderly people, especially when they're sleeping a lot and eating little. Take me with you in this experience and what we should do.

Speaker 2: 34:29

So one thing, a couple of a couple of things that I want to pick up on that you said. One thing that I tend to tell people not to do is to correct someone. So if somebody looks out and they say it's raining and you know the sun is out, you can say one time oh, you know, to me I see the sun. And then ask them so why do you think it's? What is it that you're seeing that lets you think it's raining? And in their mind, if they say, well, I see clouds and I see a thunderstorm, and you'd say, wow, that's really interesting, you don't need to correct them. You can try and jog memory, but and it may work sometimes and it may not there's nothing wrong with saying oh, mom, it's Rula, and either she's going to go oh okay, or she's not, doesn't matter. My biggest takeaway that I hope people get if they're with someone that has Alzheimer's is create the memories for you. That person isn't going to have those memories, but you will so make it as positive as you can.

Speaker 2: 35:53

I used to say to my dad oh, you're on the farm. Well, he wasn't on the farm, he was in a retirement residence. Tell me what the farm's like? Oh, there's chickens and there's horses. Tell me about that. Wow, are you enjoying it? Is it fun? Tell me what it looks like and go, go to their world. It doesn't matter that my father wasn't on the farm doesn't matter, that's where he was and I'm going to go where he is, because my purpose of being with him isn't to say, no, dad, you're not on the farm, you're sitting on a sofa in a retirement residence. It's to have that time with him where we're joking, having fun, making memories, taking pictures, doing whatever. And that's that is hard. It's hard because in your mind you're like well, if I tell you that you're not there, then you'll snap out of it and you'll come back to reality Sometimes, but sometimes not. And if they're happy where they are and they're not hurting themselves? And and you, what is? Why do we need to be right? What difference does it make if they're happy?

Speaker 1: 37:12

Valuable information, because, indeed, what difference does it make? On the contrary, when we remind them where they truly are, it becomes boring and sad and depressing.

Speaker 2: 37:27

They're in the bedroom. It's a reminder you don't know what's going on. It's a reminder you don't know what's going on and that I think for a lot of people at the sort of earlier stages in Alzheimer's, when people know they don't know, it's really hard. They know they don't know, they know they're forgetting, they know I know that I know how to do that. How come I don't know how to do that? And in a way, when it gets a little bit further down the road and they don't know, they don't know, it's easier for them. It's harder for you as their child. It's easier for them because for them this is just normal life. This is what I do. It doesn't matter what I did before. I don't remember. This is what I do. But when you know you don't know.

Speaker 1: 38:18

It's hard. So, on top of, probably, their loneliness or their being in bed the whole day, they also feel embarrassed that they forgot or they are given the wrong information.

Speaker 2: 38:31

This works even with people that have a degree of hearing loss. They don't want people to know they have hearing loss, so they kind of make up in the conversation Well, I'm going to, this is what I hear. So I don't want to look like I have hearing loss, so I'm going to just say what I think might be appropriate instead of saying, excuse me, I didn't hear you, because it is embarrassment. We live in a society of youth orientation, where young is good, old is not, and you know, any sign of everything is anti-aging, anti-aging, anti-aging. And I just I don't. I don't understand that and it makes me kind of laugh because people say well, I don't want to get older. And my knee jerk reaction is if you don't want to get older, it means you're dead, because there's no way around it. You can get older, but you don't have to get old. You want those birthdays to tick up. You want to be 80 and 90 and be vibrant and healthy and enjoying your life.

Speaker 1: 39:45

That's what you want if we want to go to the part where one moment, janice, I lost my thoughts, because I'm very touched by what you're saying and it's so true, like I see it in front of me. Older people I see in the supermarket or on the street and living around us. They, they had a life, they were people with dreams and the achievements. Sometimes I see older ladies with their walker. They're wearing the most beautiful clothes and jewelry, even having red lipstick, and I'm like they had a good life and they still live in it that's right.

Speaker 2: 40:36

Why shouldn't they? Why, you know why? Not get your nails done, get made up, get your hair colored, if that's what you want to do? You know why? Why would you stop just because you're 80 years old? Now, if you never did it and it wasn't important, that's okay too. Be who you are, it's all good. But I don't think that the vision of somebody sitting on the porch rocking chair needs to be the only vision of aging. If that's not you vision of aging if that's not you. I have a friend of mine that is a tour guide and she's 82 years old and she takes people on tours. Why shouldn't she? She's physically, cognitively, able to do so. She gets to enjoy interacting with new people. She gets to give them memories and a new experience of travel, just because she's 82, so what? I hope she does it till she's 102.

Speaker 1: 41:45

Okay, on the note of going with our parents in their dream world, in their reality, and enjoy it. I have a very curious question about the older we get, we've seen so much in life, we learned so much. Still working in the society, take other with their I don't want to say insignificant issues, but with our inexperienced life because no matter how old we are, we still build experience and sometimes these things look so silly or like we don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, but they have seen it and they know it's there. It's a little bit like us with our teenagers.

Speaker 2: 42:30

Yes, I think that we forget that we learn things as we're getting older. We see things, we learn things. We decide that's important, that's not important, oh, if this happens, then that's going to happen. And I think that there's things that we see and our expectations change. We become more accepting of a lot of things and yet everybody's running around like crazy. And you have these older people who are like no, it's good. You know, things are good. I'm 82, I'm working, I'm it's not perfect and it no, it's good. You know, things are good. I'm 82. I'm working, it's not perfect and it's all good.

Speaker 2: 43:15

And we have wisdom. We've seen situations and sometimes there's things that younger people experience that we can say to them yeah, here's how you can handle that. Yeah, here's how you can handle that. Oh, what do you know? You're just an old person. But age is wisdom, age is experience and knowledge and I think as a society we think again young is better. If you're 30 years old, you know more than the 90 year old, because you know technology better. You know, you know different innovations better. That's one, only one kind of knowledge. You can't program a computer, no matter who you are with, with wisdom. A computer will never have the wisdom of life experience. That's true, yes.

Speaker 1: 44:14

I'm going to go to a part that is less happy, but hopefully we will come out with a good feeling from it, and this part is when our parents are really. It's almost the end. We never know when the end is, but it looks like it's the end. Cultures and people have different beliefs, different faith. What's the best ways to give our parent their rest and their peace that is conformed with our beliefs and faith? And I mean and I don't mean only in religious way. It could be in any other way.

Speaker 2: 44:56

Yeah. So again, this all goes back to those conversations that need to happen long before, hopefully, this kind of situation arises. And you need to ask these questions if you were on life support, would you want to be on a vent like? Would you want to be on a ventilator? Would you want heroic techniques done? Or, if not, when, not If you would want it for this situation but not that situation.

Speaker 2: 45:32

And these things need to be in a living will. These things need to be written down and you have to make sure that you have somebody who, whether they agree with it or not, will carry out what you want, will carry out what you want, because somebody writing it down, saying you know what I don't want to be on, I don't want to be resuscitated, but you as a child saying I can't do that, that's not the person to give that responsibility to. You have to make sure that you have somebody who will do what you want them to do, and that can be hard to find sometimes because there is age difference, there is religious, practical difference, there is mindset difference. I know in Canada, medical assistance in dying has become a very big thing and it's hard for people to wrap their head around it if that's not something they're used to, somebody saying I've made the choice. I'm going to say when I want treatment to stop and I want to end my life. So it's a cultural thing that we're just not used to and we don't talk about it. And within a family, as I said, you as a person may have one idea, your parent may have a different idea, your sibling could have a different idea from you. I don't care that mom says she doesn't want to be resuscitated. I want all the heroic measures, but she doesn't want it.

Speaker 2: 47:12

Well, so it's tough conversations, but getting it, something that you and I talked about before we started that I think is really important is who gets to make the decisions. And who gets to make the decisions is the person themselves. When they are of sound mind, they get to make the decision. They get to say this is what I want, this is what I don't want. That's why it needs to be done when the person is healthy, with changes if they want, down the road. But once that person has lost their cognitive abilities, they no longer have the legal ability to make those decisions and then it's left to either the health professionals to make the decision, who have no idea what that person would want, or the family members saying, well, what do you think they want? What do you think? What do you want? What do you think? What do you want? What do you want, what do you want? And that can cause a lot of issues. So again, I go back to have those conversations as soon as you can.

Speaker 1: 48:23

Well, I know that now we're talking about caring for our parents, about caring for our parents, and I hope that the listeners who are my age, older, any age they take the initiative with their kids. I know I have sometimes this conversation with my children. My daughter is 21. And when I tell her I want to be cremated, she tells me no, I can never do this, I will never do this to you. And then I think but when I'm dead, why would I care? If it makes her happy not to cremate me, is it worth the conversation?

Speaker 2: 49:04

Only you can decide that right. The other thing is she's 21. She's young and you're young, and for her this is so far away that she can't even think about that possibility that my mom won't be around, it's not even on her radar. 20 years from now, when you sit down and have the same conversation and say, really, this is what I want, she may have a very different view with her own life experience, with her own getting to know you as an adult woman, not just her mother, but an adult woman with her own opinions and her own thoughts and her own experience.

Speaker 2: 49:49

If you weren just her mother, but an adult woman with her own opinions and her own thoughts and her own experience, if you weren't her mother and you were somebody else that was important and that person would say to her I would want to be cremated. She would never say, oh, I can't do that for you. Oh, that's what you want. Okay, make sure it happens. Even if it's not what I would do, I'll make sure it happens for you. So I think it's because she's young and just when we talk to our kids, they're fearful. But the other part of that that I think is really important is our kids are watching what we do with our own parents. Our kids are watching. How are you caring for my grandparents? Are you listening to them? Are you caring for them? Are you there for them? Because that's how they're going to learn to take care of you. If you don't take care of your own parents, they think that's what I'm supposed to do for you. So never doubt that your kids are watching you.

Speaker 1: 50:56

They're watching, even if we're not physically taking care of our parents. They're listening to the conversation.

Speaker 2: 51:01

They're listening to the dynamic. They're watching. You don't have to be hands-on caregiving, but they're watching that process. They're watching my grandparents are aging. What, what, what are my parents doing? Are they involved? Are they not involved? Are they upset? And it's.

Speaker 2: 51:22

And it's interesting because, again, in my own situation, I'm one of two children, I'm an older brother, and my brother, when my parents both had Alzheimer's, couldn't deal with with them, couldn't deal with that. He didn't want to see their decline and so he didn't see them very often. And I think to myself he missed out a lot, because I have all those memories. I saw all that stuff. I also saw all the crazy stuff that went on, but I would, I guess, for me I'd rather have seen the crazy stuff and all the good stuff, and for him it was.

Speaker 2: 52:02

I have a memory of my parents. This is how I will always think of them in this way, and I didn't judge, oh, you should go see your parents. But he ended up passing away before my father. He was young and I thought to myself it's too bad, you missed out. But that's my sisterly judgment. He couldn't do it, he just and we have to again, be okay with wherever other people are, as long as we're taking care of ourselves and we understand. Okay, it's not going to be you. I'm going to find other support somewhere else because you can't do it.

Speaker 1: 52:49

Okay, it's not an easy thing to look after another person. No.

Speaker 2: 52:57

Just that. The thing that I say to people is that when my father passed away, I had not one regret. I did what I chose to do for him. I had have great memories and I did everything. Oh, you were such a wonderful daughter. No, I did it for me it's lovely conversations about his farm.

Speaker 2: 53:25

These were happy moments oh, you're on the farm. I mean, he would just tell me stories about stuff and I know that when he was younger he always wished he had lived on a farm because he loved animals and having that ability to to garden and and grow things. And he didn't have it. So I was almost kind of happy that that's where he went to the place that he really wanted to be, that he got there in his own way, he got there.

Speaker 2: 53:57

But we have to be accepting of where people are at, and it's not always easy, and it's easy for me to say flippantly oh it's okay, wherever they are, you go meet them there. But when you're watching somebody you know especially, I'll say, somebody who was a professional, somebody who was a lawyer, a doctor, a teacher, and all of a sudden their mind is not what it was and you know what that intellect was like or that was like, and now they need a high degree of caregiving because they can't care for themselves. It's hard to watch it and there's no, there's no doubt about it. It's hard, but you have, I don't know. I guess my feeling is you have no choice. This is where. This is what it is. If you could change it, believe me, I know you would, but you can't. So that acceptance of I'm just going to meet them wherever they're at. What other choice do you have?

Speaker 1: 55:02

In a way, you get to do this. You get to look after them, to be with them in their last days, last moments, last years, no matter how difficult they are, it's. This by itself is just beautiful.

Speaker 2: 55:21

Yeah, but you have to be able again, and I want to just go back to that. You have to be capable, and not everybody is. Not everybody is, and that's the reality. There are times where nobody lives where the parents are and the kids live elsewhere, and so they have to either hire somebody to care for their parent or potentially move their parent. But when people say, well, I'm just going to move my parent to where I am, sometimes that's okay than having them stay in their familiar community and having them have help where they live and where they're used to and where their friends are and the familiar surroundings. So again, there's no one size fits all. Every family has to say what is the best solution for us and be okay with that. Is the best solution for us and be okay with that.

Speaker 1: 56:31

I know that you told me you have wrote a book to help parents prepare for themselves and for their kids. Can you talk a little bit about your book?

Speaker 2: 56:45

Sure. So my book is called Getting Older, but Not Old, and really it's a book on successful aging for the older person, because there's still lots of life to live, no matter what, and so you know I talk about going on vacation and volunteering, and but I also talk about other important things like dating. People can date and be older and they can have sex and be older. We don't talk about it, but it's true. It also talks about your relationship with your health professionals. It's a really important dynamic and that can have a huge impact on your life and the use of drugs.

Speaker 2: 57:30

We always associate older people being on a ton of medications, and a lot of them are. But in the book it talks about how to make sure you're on the right drugs, how to make sure you're only on what's necessary for you, and how you can find out if what is happening is correct. It can help you decide should I stay where I live or should I look at other living options. So it's all practical, kind of light and fun, because that's what successful aging is. It is light and fun and it doesn't matter if you have Alzheimer's or you don't. You can have quality of life, no matter what.

Speaker 1: 58:16

It's the book that is very helpful. I think it would be a great gift to our parents. We read books at every stage of our life. I read books, book about perimenopause and when I had babies, I got books about babies. It's only natural, Of course. I'm saying it's only natural because I support that we read about the stages of our lives.

Speaker 2: 58:41

I think it's not very common no, we have a strange view of getting older and, if I can change it even a little bit, to say you want to get older, you do. You want to get older, you want to enjoy every moment of your life to the fullest. You want experience. You know this is going to sound weird, but people say, well, person passed away, they're 90 years old, they lived a good long life. Very true, but thinking 90 years, how many people you impact and that ripple that goes out farther and farther and farther, out, farther and farther and farther. 90 years of impact on other people, it's a lot, it's huge the impact that we have as individuals on earth. And you want to live every moment. There's nobody that I think would ever say no, I'm good, I don't need to live anymore, unless there's no, I'm good, I don't need to live anymore, unless there's major health issues.

Speaker 1: 59:57

If you're healthy and you're enjoying life, that's all that matters. And I think the message I'm learning from everything you say and absorbing this information. So, as a child, grown up child, the best that we give to our parents is accepting them, reliving their life at their own terms when they're at that age.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

And also allowing them, to the best of their ability, to guide where they want to go, and it may not be where you want them to go. You may think I don't want my parent traveling. I don't want. Oh, I'm afraid. What if something happens? But if that person has the ability to make decisions and they do something that may not agree with you, you have just like they.

Speaker 2: 1:00:49

When you were a teenager, I'm sure you made lots of decisions that your parents didn't like, and they allowed you to do it. We're all allowed, no matter what age, to make mistakes or to try and make something happen, and if it doesn't, try again. That's the way life is. We have to have self-determination for as long as we possibly can. And so somebody may say I don't want to move out of my house, I want to stay in my house. I've got 60 years of memories here. Oh, but mom, it's got stairs. All right, let's find a way to make it more livable for me to live there, for me to live there. So we have to. It's a balance. It's a balance of both sides. You care about your parent, but your parent also has self-determination, and sometimes, at a certain point, you may have to step in and say no, this is unsafe. This is not the right thing. There's too many issues. I'm going to you know, we as a family are going to do something different.

Speaker 1: 1:01:56

It's hard, yeah, so this is all our so far, our conversation on personal level, family level, and you're working now to help companies, help their employees, on just like they facilitate when a person is pregnant. They have a baby, now also in the stage of their life, to look after their parents. Can you talk about this please?

Speaker 2: 1:02:21

So it's something that because our demographics or other people are living longer and people because of economic necessity are working longer. So I, as a child, I can be working until I'm 60 or 70 years old and I have my aging parents who are 90 years old and I'm sitting in my workplace worried about my parent and not doing my work. And companies are now just going to start feeling that effect of having what I would call distracted employees who are trying to balance all those balls up in the air, and those employees can be anywhere from 40 to 65. People had children when they were older, not like I had my children in my early 20s. People had children in their 40s, which means that their children are younger but they're still caring for their aging parents, and I think this is going to be something that companies are going to see more and more how do we deal with our employees' well-being and make sure that they're also productive in their job?

Speaker 2: 1:03:36

So I am looking to do sort of training with companies to talk with their children of aging parents, to say you can do both, it is possible, but again it's letting yourself off the hook and having help and resources and having a workplace that is going to understand that at certain times you may need a little bit of a flexibility, because these the same like when you have young children and you're taking your kids to daycare and the daycare closes. Because there's the same like when you have young children and you're taking your kids to daycare and the daycare closes because there's an outbreak of measles or something and you have to figure out what do I do? You have to deal with that. So that is a goal of mine is to start educating employers about how to deal with these children of aging parents.

Speaker 1: 1:04:32

Do you feel like there is ignorance on this matter? Is maybe ignorance a big or full word?

Speaker 2: 1:04:37

I don't think ignorance. I actually read a quote from the Harvard Business Review that says well, people aren't talking about it, so it must not be a problem. Well, people aren't talking about it, so it must not be a problem. The reason people don't talk about it is they don't want to be penalized in their job place for not being available. They want to make sure that they can stay on their career path or whatever that is.

Speaker 2: 1:05:02

Or they don't want to be different from their colleagues who aren't caring for a parent, who don't have that extra responsibility. So they may say oh, I have to leave the office because I have a dental appointment, but they're not really going to the dentist. They're taking their parent for their own medical appointment, but they don't want to tell anybody because they don't want to be seen as. Oh well, you know, jane, what are we going to do? She's off on appointments and doing different things. If it's a personal thing, we tend to be okay with that, but not I have to take care of my aging parent, because then people worry. How is that going to affect you in your workplace?

Speaker 1: 1:05:45

Yes. Do you think that the further this work will be done, the more new laws and regulations should be in place to foster this behavior from both sides?

Speaker 2: 1:06:03

I think it will happen. I think there'll be more employee, especially for the physical and the mental stress that happens, because it's going to start affecting people's ability to be on the job and companies are going to look at it and say, well, how can we get above it? How can we be proactive? How can we support our staff's well-being and still make sure that they're doing their job? It will pay for them to do that in terms of productivity and retention of staff. So I think in the next 10 years especially, you're going to see a lot more talk in companies about how do we deal with this demographic switch.

Speaker 1: 1:06:50

I'm very happy to hear about it and know about it now so that I move with the new generation who will be confidently from work taking care of their parents.

Speaker 2: 1:07:03

And the other thing too is because of COVID, many more people are working from home. So it's not you're not in the sort of purview of your employer. You can you have more flexibility If you have to take your parent to an appointment. It's not like everybody sees you leave, you're at home. If you go, you go. Then you may end up working different hours to make up for whatever hours you have missed. So I think even that has made it a little bit easier to care for your aging parents, because you don't have the same degree of oversight in a lot of places yeah, I'm not sure it's it's correct for me to say this, but so many positive things came out after COVID.

Speaker 1: 1:07:55

It feels that we dare do the things that life requires us much more than before.

Speaker 2: 1:08:04

Yes.

Speaker 1: 1:08:05

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:08:05

I think it puts priorities in place. We understand now what it means to miss people differently, to build relationships on relationship, not just oh, I take you for granted, I get to see you every day. Now, when you didn't, you had to really find ways to be connected to people. And look at, there was loneliness and lots of other side effects. But I think, as you said, there are things that came out of it that had people learn about themselves differently.

Speaker 1: 1:08:47

Yes, even about loneliness. It became visible that people were hiding their loneliness and through COVID it's not hidden anymore. So we are more aware that there are lonely people, truly lonely, right For sure. Janice, if we go back to the beginning of this episode and with your experience, your knowledge, your children now at an age where I think you have organized with them how you want things to look like for yourself and they're on board with you, if it's not too much of a personal question, so my kids are very aware and I joke about it.

Speaker 2: 1:09:40

I will joke, you know, if my health gets to a certain point, give me the little blue pills, like I will say that to them. Give me the little blue pills, like I will say that to them. Give me the little blue pills. And my son, who is a lawyer, says if you have it written down, I will do it Like, you must make sure it's written down so I can do what you want. And that's the important part is make your needs known and make it such that people don't have to guess and they're legalized for lack of a better word that it's there for somebody to say there you go, it's written down.

Speaker 2: 1:10:22

I had that even with my mother, who had a DNR do not resuscitate and a doctor had asked well, what would your mother want if? And I said, oh, here, here it is. These aren't my words, these are hers. It's not me deciding for her, it's her deciding for her, and that's ultimately what we all want for ourselves. If I decide I want to be resuscitated, I should be resuscitated. If I decide I don't want to be, then I shouldn't be. But that should be my choice and it should be clear what it is I want. So yeah, I mean, as I said, I joke with my kids about it all the time.

Speaker 1: 1:11:07

Good to keep the conversation open and for me I'm not talking about my kids about it I will put it on paper in case something happened and they're not old enough to have this talk with me.

Speaker 2: 1:11:22

And they have to know where the papers are. That's the other thing. Oh, here I have a red file file and in my red file is my will and my powers of attorney, and here's where my bank accounts are and here's who my lawyer is. If something should ever happen to me, here's where it is.

Speaker 1: 1:11:44

You don't have to look at it now, but I want you to know.

Speaker 2: 1:11:47

Here it is.

Speaker 1: 1:11:51

Yes, this gives me. I mean there are so many topics on my episode and this topic while it's about caring for our parents, but my takeaway now, after I hang up, is that how am I going to do it right for my children so they don't carry the burden right of me?

Speaker 2: 1:12:09

later. Well, not a burden. The the ability to to care for you in the way that you want. It's not a burden that's true.

Speaker 1: 1:12:19

It's not a burden.

Speaker 2: 1:12:20

My parents are also not a burden and if we change that thinking, then it will change, will change that it's a privilege, not a burden, it's a privilege.

Speaker 2: 1:12:34

I just want to know that people let themselves off the hook. It's okay. Whatever you do, it's good. It's good. It's okay If you're trying, if you have the right mindset of we're here to make the best possible solution. There's nothing more you can ask of yourselves. It's never going to be perfect and, yeah, just be gentle with your own self, with your own self. If anybody would like more information about what I do or would like to talk to me one-on-one, I am more than happy to do that. Just contact me at Janice, at TalkAboutAgingcom, because that's what we need to do. Let's talk about aging.

Speaker 1: 1:13:27

You're not only talking about aging. Also, you guide people or you help them in their conversations with their parents, making the right decision, finding the right care. We're going to spread the word Good so that every parent gets the best care and every caregiver have a good, strong well-being.

Speaker 2: 1:13:49

Yeah. Correct and the other thing that people I hope they take away is that you're not alone. You don't have to do it by yourself. It's okay to ask for help. It's okay to have questions. Don't think you have to have every answer yourself or that there isn't help out there. There's lots of lots of help, lots of help. You know. Go and live your highest quality of life, any age, any stage. I truly believe in that.

Speaker 1: 1:14:27

As you heard from Janice, contact her if you have questions about caregiving for your parents. Janice is the author of the book Getting Older but Not Old. Live Longer, stronger and With More Joy. This book might be a life-changing and helpful start to your parents, to you, to have the conversation and look after each other's well-being. To have the conversation and look after each other's well-being. You will find a link to Janice's website where you can read the full chapter for free and learn more about her mission.

Speaker 1: 1:14:56

Talk About Aging. I craft each episode with care because all the topics are dear to me or I am curious about, and they are all life affairs that make us human beings. Let me know what topic you would like to hear about. Remember I don't shy away from any topic, so feel free to suggest anything, no matter how controversial or awkward you might think it is. The truth is there is always someone out there listening and benefiting from the discussion, no matter what it is. Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with your friends and family and ask them to subscribe. Leaving a rating and review on platforms like Apple Podcasts can also help boost the podcast ranking. Your support through word of mouth is greatly appreciated. Ranking your support through word of mouth is greatly appreciated. If you feel I'm encouraging you to tell your story, contact me on Rula at thelifeaffairspodcastcom. You will see my email in the show notes. I'll see you next time.