Roula (00:01)
Before you start listening, want to tell you that the next episode is going to be a bonus episode. Based on what the learning of this episode, it's time to have fun and the next episode is all about fun. Stay tuned till the end so you will know what are you going to listen to next and how you're going to elevate your relationship.

Roula (00:21)
Welcome to the Life Affairs Podcast. This is a place where we share life experiences and the many lessons learned by just living. Join me to immerse ourselves and take a closer look at the stories that shaped and defined us. Just remember, there's no judgment and lot of understanding on today's episode of the Life Affairs Podcast.

Roula (00:48)
Nothing would have upset my mom as when I tell her I'm not going to marry a Middle Eastern man. The culture I grew up in, Middle Eastern men went and worked outside of the house and did nothing else. Came home, did not help with homework. And I'm saying about my generation, Generation X and older. They would come home and sit down, don't do anything. The food is served for them. The coffee is served for them. And the mom...

She comes home from working outside of the house, help the kids with their homework, prepare the dinner, clean the house, do everything. I found this inequality killer. And my mom gets really upset until one day I came to her and I told her I found my equal. I married a Dutch person and he was my equal in incredibly so many possible ways. Most importantly,

He was my equal in the house and outside the house. There are few years I was a stay at home mom and in other years he was stay at home dad. And our life looked perfect in so many ways. Until one day we told our children we're getting the divorce. And that was the most difficult thing I've ever done in my entire life. I grew up in a war, bombs, car bombs. I've seen so much. And believe me,

telling my kids we're getting the divorce was the most most horrible things that I think that I did in my life and I was ignorant I didn't know what it took to save my marriage my ex was an ignorant he also didn't know what it takes to save our marriage it's always a two-way street it's never one responsible and in my second marriage with now

been together almost longer than my first marriage. We're thriving. My husband and I, are, you would, sometimes when we're arguing, it feels like the sun and the moon are not in the right place. This bad, it is. But we've never been thriving in our relationship as we are. We're growing together, we're happier. We enjoy arguing because the reward of us behaving in the right way

communicating just like we have learned and like getting the fruits of being into this self-development phase, into the self-growth phase that we've been through is very rewarding. We couldn't have done it without coaching and coaching is expensive. It's not something you say, okay, we're going for coaching tomorrow. It's super expensive. That's why there are podcasts like mine.

where you can get so much value for yourself and your partner without paying money. Also coaching is scary because you think there might be pointing fingers you did this wrong and the other and the coach is being there as a referee who's done right and who's done wrong and it's so not true there is no pointing fingers at least if it's a good coach i'm sure there are no pointing fingers there are bad coaches actually do not trust everyone

there is so much self-reflection thinking and looking inwards why do i react this way i have something in me i understood feminism in the wrong way and this is where i acted so much based on my feministic ideas i am a feminist but not in the wrong way that i have thought i learned or heard about and my husband

He is very proud, he has lot of ego and he had to learn how to come back to me with humility. One has to be humble, the other one has to be less aggressive so that you can see eye to eye. Seeing eye to eye doesn't mean wanting the same thing. Seeing eye to eye doesn't mean agreeing. It means...

I hear you, I see you, I understand you, I respect you. And let's now talk about how we're going to do it together. And this is where I love these podcasts on my episodes. I love these episodes on my podcast because they are raw, authentic, and I really talk about things from the heart. I'm sure you also have things from the heart that you want to talk about and hear about. And here's this episode.

with Anna Brit Voorn. She is a relationship coach and brain spotting therapist. She and I, we're going to give you some tools and advices that you can use immediately in your relationship and not having to spend a lot of money on therapy unless you want to invest in yourself and you have the finances to do it. I leave you to it. Without further ado, let's go and start talking to Anna Britt.

Roula (06:17)
Today we are here because we want to talk about what caused the disconnection in a couple relationship and how they can repair it. I will start with a question what couples do not need to seek relationship coaching.

Anna Brit (06:35)
Beautiful question. Well, first of all, of course, it's not up to me whether they need it or not. when people feel that there is a disconnect and we get to that one and when it's not possible to repair, to talk about it, that they will eventually, sooner or later, experience

the distance like you. You get to your own island and you drift apart. So people that don't need it are people that don't experience it.

Roula (07:11)
Can we say because they are couples who seek adventure together and have a good communication skill when it comes to their problem solving?

Anna Brit (07:21)
But communication definitely has to do with it. If you really understand each other, you're curious about each other, you're able to repair conflict. I mean, there's nothing wrong with conflict, but when you're able to prepare, truly understand what it is for your partner, not to be right, but to understand each other. If that all goes well, then you probably don't need it. But

We learn from relationships in the first place from our parents when we're really young. And our parents are not these supermans or women or whatever. They are human beings and they have their own challenges. So we can only learn what we see there and then take that experience and create our own ways of connecting. And I think

almost everybody can learn more about love and about connection, about relationships. But when it's not a problem and you really are able to reconnect, then yeah, you probably don't need it. But when you have difficulties or when you feel like you want to improve your connection or deepen it, or you want to be able to restore conflict or truly understand each other, then yeah.

be welcome to take a step and do something. Learn more about that.

Roula (08:53)
relate when you say things we learn from our parents. This made me also think of what my kids are learning from my relationships. Talking about the parents and what we learn from them, love for me had a weird meaning because my father was very emotional and so innocent. And my mom loved him so much and her way in dealing with these conflicts is to let it be and to accept it.

Anna Brit (09:11)
Stormy person.

Roula (09:23)
not create excuses but in a way give him the right to be that very loud and sometimes unkind person towards her. did not feel that she wants to raise her voice or go into the conflict which meant I did not learn how to resolve conflict.

couples and I saw my mom giving everything. Yeah. And I did not agree with that. So when it came to my relationship, I didn't have a role model and I didn't know how to deal with it. But I also didn't know that coaching was a solution. Until I opened my eyes. A light bulb just was there.

Anna Brit (10:13)
That's it.

There's so much to learn, yeah.

Roula (10:21)
Indeed. Disconnect. This is what we want to focus on today. And disconnect comes and go. And it feels that sometimes it's accepted as this is the way of living. But what leads to disconnect? Many reasons. And I want with you to go through a few examples of

when a couple feel disconnected and how do they navigate it before they realize we should do something about it.

Anna Brit (10:57)
Yeah. Well, there are, mean, in day to day life, there are always moments that you don't feel the connection with your partner. Sometimes he or she does something stupid, and you're just, you just don't like it or makes you angry or whatever. I mean, it's normal, right? We're emotional beings, so emotions go, they come and go. But sometimes when you, when there's a certain emotion or hurt or

disappointment or frustration or anger that's there more often, a feeling that you know and that gets triggered within the communication or within the interaction with your partner a lot, then it can become like this, yeah, stone on the road that you stumble upon time after time. And that hurts. And every time it hurts or every time you're

Yeah, you feel like your partner isn't really there for you or your partner doesn't really understand you. We do something with that feeling. Some become angry, some become disappointed, some take more distance. It's like little doors closing all the time and you start to doubt. And then the interesting thing is that what our brain does then when we start doubting or seeing negative stuff.

It's like this alert going off and we only tend to see the negative part. And that's where it slowly builds upon a disconnect and it actually becomes more and more. So if you doubt a little bit or you're disappointed and you're not doing the repair work, then it becomes more and more. It's like putting another stamp in your, you had to, you had these

cards in supermarkets way back where you can save like stamps in it. And when it's full, you can, well, you still have it like the actions for you save up for something you want to buy. It's a bit like that also in relationships. When we don't resolve it, we're like saving and building upon the moments of disconnect or disappointment. And when we have the feeling you're not there for me, it hurts.

because we want to be connected. We are made for connection also. When we do feel connection, all these beautiful hormones we sense and yeah, we feel good. And when we don't, that's a horrible feeling. And when we don't repair them, it becomes more and more and more and it's like drifting away slowly.

Roula (13:45)
It's hard to talk about the repair when in the moment first I think in this disconnection moment it's not about the dishes that are not in the dishwasher. No. It's about what's really going on. Yeah. And we don't this thing that is really going on sometimes it's not talked about because we want to avoid conflict.

Or we don't talk about it we don't want to go into an argument. We're scared of the argument as it's going to destroy us. And sometimes it feels like it's destructive because we don't know how to come out of it. So my question here is that do you often work in with couples? See that it's about the same thing that couples are arguing about?

Anna Brit (14:19)
Yeah.

definitely. Yeah, definitely.

Roula (14:40)
So

no one is special basically, we all are struggling.

Anna Brit (14:44)
We are all unique. mean, no relationship is the same because people are unique, right? But yeah, there are definitely topic sets that are within.

Roula (14:55)
We

take some examples of these recurring disconnected topics.

Anna Brit (15:01)
Well, yeah, there are different ways of dealing with disconnect. So, and that starts really young when we're babies, when we're small children. We learn about relationships by, from the way that our parents are attuned to our needs. And I'm not saying that parents are bad and they did a bad job, but they can only do what they know, right? And you cannot a hundred percent.

be there, attuned to the needs of your child because you have your own life as well. So the child experiences moments of disconnect and sometimes more than others because of divorce, because of parents becoming ill or well, all sorts of problems that can arise. And when we experience that moment of disconnect, we do something with it. It's like

we try to repair it and we do that in different ways and children do that by becoming angry, throwing a tantrum or not speaking up and just like moping and things like that. And if you look at adults, they actually still do the same things often. So we have these ways, we learned these ways how to deal with that pain because it was pain, it was panic of not feeling the achievement of your parent.

When we sense something similar in our adult relationships, we actually do the same behavior. So become critical, defensive. We start to, I don't know, sometimes say nasty things to each other or just ignore them and not speaking to all these things. We probably all know them, right? I still do it sometimes. like, my God, I'm there. mean, I'm not perfect.

This way.

Roula (16:56)
Favorite

one is this sign and three twits.

Anna Brit (17:00)
Yeah, but it's also, and actually it's creating more distance, but there's something that feels vulnerable and all these ways that we learn of it is trying to connect that vulnerability. So we push them away or we just leave or we, yeah, we do things to protect that. And sometimes I call it walls. So we raise the wall to protect that vulnerability.

And then when we do that, it's actually harder to reach each other's heart because that's what it is, right? Being yourself and showing who you are and what you feel. And that's vulnerable, but that's the only way to create connection.

Roula (17:50)
vulnerability, the only way to create connection. Because how many times when we are raising this wall, deep down all we want is that the other person would reach for us, hold our hands, or hug us. the wall growing and they're like, I'm not getting in there. That's too dangerous.

Anna Brit (18:04)
Yeah, understand us.

Yeah, or they feel the disconnect too and that hurts. So of course the other one is raising their walls as well. If it's like that. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Not us. I love the beautiful saying, don't remember who it was, like partners shout towards each other when they cannot reach each other's hearts.

And yeah, and we end and the shouting we have different ways for it. Like you say, the withdrawing or the silent treatment or stonewalling as we call it also. That's hard. Someone that wants to be close to you and understand you and be understood by you. If someone closes that door, that hurts.

Roula (18:55)
for

Sometimes we also don't want to understand the other. This vulnerability thing is so important because of we don't want to be vulnerable, we are standing our ground.

Anna Brit (19:09)
No!

Yeah, and the wall is in the way actually. And then partners are waiting for each other. If you lower yours, okay, then I can. But then nothing's gonna happen. And partners often hope that the other one can read what they need. They can read your mind. They know, I told you, remember, why don't you listen to me? Or why don't you do it now? Because if your partner is hurt,

he or she feels the disconnect, then he or she is waiting to be understood too. So, yeah.

Roula (19:57)
That's really something that we don't want to put our guards down. We both know it's like in our head we still want to be heard that we're not willing to say, okay, I agree with you. This how I feel. This needs training and coaching. It doesn't come natural. We didn't learn it unless really

people have been raised in this very constant way of living. None of my friends are raised like this. I don't know people who were raised in this way because they would be very inspiring. I could watch them and learn from them. But everything I see around me are people like me struggling in their relationship because they don't know how to handle this vulnerability and the ego.

and the defensive nerves. There is as much desire to be hurt. And in the heat of the moment, what's the best thing to do when this wall is growing?

Anna Brit (21:00)
Yeah, of course.

and don't understand each other.

Well, another thing to add to it.

Roula (21:14)
There's much more to it.

Anna Brit (21:17)
But what makes it more difficult even is that we have different ways. So some are similar, we recognize them, but we have different ways how to deal with disconnect. So some tend to withdraw more and some are more in the attack or defense mode. Like they want to talk, they use like five languages at the same time to make them understand why it is.

one is withdrawing more and more like my god it becomes too much and and then the other one is like hey you're not leaving we're talking here I want to repair

Roula (21:56)
You're my hostage.

Anna Brit (21:59)
So we have different ways how to deal with it. And it's so painful for partners because the one that's withdrawing is not doing it because they don't care for their partner, but it feels like that for the other sometimes. Like you don't care about how I feel. You just go, yeah, sure. That's easy. Just leave. Things like that. And that makes it actually worse. But the person that's checking out...

actually gets overwhelmed and actually is trying to keep the connection because he or she that does that actually learn that. So the person that withdraws is actually trying to maintain and take care of the connection.

Roula (22:39)
You beat that?

Wow, now hearing it from you, I believe it. I would have not seen it this way. I would have seen it then like turn your back on me.

Anna Brit (23:00)
Yeah,

and it feels like that sometimes maybe for the people that have the other way of dealing with that. And that's so painful. And then you feel hurt when you believe that the other one does it because they don't care. You get hurt more and the walls are raging and it gets harder and more critical maybe or more words come out.

Roula (23:25)
Come on.

Anna Brit (23:26)
Yeah, but then the other one who learned to maintain the connection by staying calm, rational, by taking a distance maybe a little bit to make sure it doesn't escalate, that's like, it becomes too much, it becomes overwhelming. Sometimes they panic and then they might get angry or leave or whatever. So it's because they love you and it's their way to maintain the connection.

Roula (23:56)
can this like contradicting behavior, one is like a hailstorm on the other. Yeah. And the other just want to find a shelter. How can they, in this, in this right example, I could come back to it later, but I don't want to forget about it. In your opinion, in this moment, how can they like calm each other down, reassure each other, the one who's that really want to talk now and the other one.

Anna Brit (24:04)
Yeah, yeah.

Roula (24:26)
to give it a moment. How can they reach out to each other in a way that in that heated moment it can be heard?

Anna Brit (24:36)
Yeah, I wish I had a quick fix that works for everybody.

Roula (24:44)
That was common once.

Anna Brit (24:46)
Well, it's a process to understand that does I work with partners on that because it's not impossible at all. It's about understanding. So in short, when, when emotions like grow and it becomes, and you're in the heat of the moment, then actually your brain doesn't function in the way that you need in order to maintain the connection and be empathetic.

and to understand each other. the new part, the new cortex is not involved or not as much as you need it to be in those moments. So what you need actually is to calm down or to regulate your emotions in order to make sure that that part works. And we can do a lot of things, but a pause is one of them. That's a really important one. Not to...

go on and on and on and hurt each other even more. So pause, take a moment, but then partners say, yeah, I tried to do that. I just go away and it doesn't help. No, of course not. If you're in the, we also call them the chimpanzee and the turtle. So a chimpanzee is going like, oh, I want you to understand me and come on. I want to talk about it more like that. Or you're not doing it right or things like that.

And the chimpanzee is like, sorry, the turtle is like, oh, I want to maintain the connection and then it should be calm and like that. So when you have that dynamic, you both need to calm down in order for the turtle to come back and in order for the chimpanzee to become more, more quiet and you need something else. And then you're like, okay, but who's starting here?

because the chimpanzee wants reassurance and closeness, but the turtle cannot give it in that moment. So mostly what happens is that the turtle needs to take a distance, needs to pause. The chimpanzee needs a pause to calm down, but they need to do that in a way that's healthy. And so saying pause and just leaving,

That doesn't reassure the shampalsi. But if your partner would say like Rula, I don't want this to go any further and I don't want us to hurt each other. I really need a pause in order to come back and talk about it. Give me some time. I'll go for a walk or but I'll be back. That probably feels

Roula (27:11)
the show.

So

really, so really? Yeah, really.

Anna Brit (27:37)
Then you feel hurt and understood but your partner cannot be there for you in that way. But your partner is not just taking off and leaving but taking care of the relationship and his or herself in order to prepare.

Roula (27:56)
So

from what you're saying, Anna-Britt, there is a lot of responsibility on us as an individual in that moment. Like we have to stay in the moment and not lose it, lose our shit. Because then nothing. Okay, let's be real. By the time we need relationship coaching, we lost our shit so much. Like it's beyond repair.

Anna Brit (28:09)
Yeah

Yeah, I know it all.

Roula (28:26)
And just thinking that not losing our temper and our cool and be able to think rationally. It's hard. It's hard for the turtle because the turtle in that moment just want to... the responsibility of that individual to have the courage and the love. Because I think at that moment, love is so, so scary. They say, I'll be back to talk about it.

Anna Brit (28:39)
Yeah.

So, so, that's our... Yeah, yeah.

Roula (28:54)
And really the chimpanzee has to have this responsibility to believe in it. I hope. Because from my personal experience, and just a disclaimer here, I did relationship coaching. I work hard, still working hard. I'm not that person anymore. I know what I'm talking about when I say lose my shit. I don't do that anymore. The thing is, the person who is the chimpanzee,

Anna Brit (29:00)
Yeah,

Roula (29:24)
is feeling so not heard that they lost their belief that this can be fixed.

Anna Brit (29:33)
It can make you feel hopeless, frustrated and hurt also because it hurts when you don't feel the connection. And when you believe that your partner is not there for you, that hurts. And the brain actually doesn't make a distinction between physical hurt and mental hurt, you know? So when we have heartache, it really hurts. We have to, it's the same feeling. It's there. It's real. I mean, it's not like, yeah, no, it's real. No, no, it hurts. Yes, painful. Yeah.

Roula (30:04)
I'm going like two steps, ten steps back right now. Thinking about the disconnect, what leads to this disconnect moment can be various things. What I think, what personally for me caused the disconnect is being so busy with the children, within a career and not

finding quality time together, that built to my disconnect. Also, my wrong beliefs on how men and women should act at home. And these wrong beliefs made me want so much from my partner that I couldn't see actually the good thing he's doing. I couldn't see that if I'm doing all the households, for example.

Anna Brit (30:44)
Yeah.

Roula (30:59)
he's painting all the walls or he's gardening, he's doing something that has an end, beginning and an end, and I feel like my tasks don't have an end. And this creates this disconnection in terms that everyone is doing their own thing and looking after the kids and picking up all these work calls and not making time for each other. So when the disconnect here comes, it's powerful.

No, I don't want to use the word powerful. It's like a hurricane. Because you're busy with your life and then you're having the disconnect. What's worth it? Why are we together?

Anna Brit (31:36)
Yeah.

Yeah, it can feel like you're miles apart, although you are sleeping in the same bed. Yeah. Yeah. Because you don't connect on emotional levels also, right?

Roula (31:51)
Yeah, when we just talk about the kids, that's the only conversation.

Anna Brit (31:55)
Yeah, it becomes practical. Yes. And when it becomes practical, it's not intimate, it's not sexy, it's not what we want. We want to know, are you there for me when I need you? And sometimes in the practical way, that feels comfortable and your partner is. But when we miss that other part, then disconnection grows.

Roula (31:58)
The mic's loose.

Yeah.

Yeah. How can like, what's the state of the disconnect by the time people would get to you for help?

Anna Brit (32:31)
It differs, depends on how much it hurts also. And sometimes problems or challenges arise by that disconnect. So arguing more, infidelity, lack of trust. There's a lot of things that can happen. No sex anymore because there's no intimacy and women and men.

Well, if you generalize, we need something else to build that connection again and be close again. So there are different ways. And also what we experienced previous in our lives, the triggers we have, the pain points. Yeah, well, we all, I call it the blueprint of relationships. As I told you, it starts early in life, but you build upon that by other experiences.

Roula (33:16)
Tell me about the triggers.

Anna Brit (33:30)
And in the brain, when we have a certain experience, we connect certain things towards each other, with each other. So, for instance, your parents got divorced and one of them left. And the feeling you had or the experience you had when your mom or dad left you is like a pain, became a pain point.

especially when there wasn't room for you when you as a child could talk about it and deal with those emotions and feelings, then it becomes a pain point that you didn't resolve, that you didn't heal. And when you have similar experiences later in life where you get disappointed or when you had the feeling that you're left alone, you had to deal with it alone, that hurts. And your brain is like, I know that feeling.

and actually feel that feeling in the moment again. And that hurts. And then every time your partner does something that hurts in that same kind of way, then it builds upon it and gets more, more tense or more, more delicate or more. And then like in an argument, when you have a chimpanzee and a turtle.

and where the turtle just walks away. And in this case, when the ship and sea had an experience like that, when the turtle just leaves without saying something, that gets triggered again, feeling. And you just, feel left alone again. And that can make you sad or angry or just mad sometimes. And your partner might think like, hey, I didn't do anything. I just left. I'll be back in like half an hour.

But sure, but sure.

Roula (35:26)
What's

your problem? Yeah, what's your problem?

Anna Brit (35:28)
And so when something gets triggered, your reaction and your emotion and your feeling is like massive, but not in comparison to what it maybe should be in the moment or what it doesn't really belong to what's happening in the moment because it belongs to something in the past.

Roula (35:51)
what you believe or to think that it does not belong.

Anna Brit (35:54)
Yeah, we feel like it is because we feel it now. And we might blame our partners for it. Like, you make me feel, yeah.

Roula (36:04)
Yeah, I knew it was going a

Anna Brit (36:06)
It

makes it complicated. Yeah. Yeah. So what I do in the trajectories I work with couples. Well, it's like peeling an onion. You have all these things I have to do with it, but also the triggers. So finding out what's happening between partners. What is it that hurts and what's underneath? And you're like going down and down and down and exploring what's actually happening. So it's not...

dishes. It's not the cap on the toothpaste tube or whatever. It's not the socks in the corner. No, it's what catch touched what's hurting actually. And then we work with partners on those levels and learning how to explain and first

try to, I mean, it starts with becoming more aware, of course, because partners sometimes don't know it's that. So you're peeling the onion, you're exploring what's happening, and then you tell your partner. And getting to know each other in that way is like this profound connection appears. Partners, after a trajectory, they say like, well, I actually never knew my partner in that way.

Roula (37:24)
That's so true. You know, isn't it true that people don't go to coaching or therapy because they feel the finger is going to be pointed at them when they don't know what it is?

Anna Brit (37:38)
Yeah, and it's scary to do something that you don't know, right? We tend to actually choose for something we do know, although it might not work in a good way.

Roula (37:49)
Solve it ourselves.

Anna Brit (37:51)
Yeah, or just like, yeah, okay, I know this, it's okay. What if we go into therapy or coaching and things become worse? I mean, you don't know. I I know it's not going to be like that, but they might think it and you just leave it. I mean, we tend to stick to what we know, right? But that's not where the growth is. We grow when we do something new.

Roula (38:16)
We tend to stick to what we know absolutely it feels safe. And the other thing is we are conditioned and taught to solve our problems ourselves and if we can't then we're incapable. We're not good enough. There's also a reason why we don't seek help. We should be able to...

Anna Brit (38:39)
Well,

it's especially with relationships. Yes, especially with relationships. Because when we have a toothache, or when the car breaks down, we usually don't tend to fix it ourselves, right? Yeah, I mean, and it's not that you cannot, I mean, if you read a lot of books or do courses or whatever, from your home or you try to fit, it's not not impossible to do it. But the

Roula (38:54)
Go to the

Anna Brit (39:08)
The chance of succeeding is way less and it takes a lot of time and in the meantime a lot of suffering and sometimes so much suffering and hurting each other, not intentionally, intentionally, but why would you do that? Why would you walk around with a toothache for months, weeks, years? I don't know. Sometimes people wait years before they seek for help.

Roula (39:37)
or the divorce.

Anna Brit (39:39)
or they divorce. Sometimes there's too much hurt and then they give up. Yeah.

Roula (39:45)
Yes. From my personal experience, I know that when I sat on this chair, this lovely practice and the relationship therapist for coaching, have week after week waited for it, for that moment, because I was learning about myself in a way that I've thought of it this way.

but I've never been faced with it. And yes, it was triggering, lot of crying. I felt I'm being like destroyed by all these things that going on with me to come up better actually. And I don't know how it was for my partner. I was so busy, focused on myself. And I think he also went through something. I don't know. What I was thinking is that, there's so much going on with me.

And he is getting into all these vulnerable information from the session. It's not, it's very confronting. How do you deal with that? Because it brings so much, so many emotions and past hurts and trauma and not necessarily trauma. It can bring. We're facing ourselves how we are. How, how do you bring the couples together in these moments of

vulnerability because I think the story I told in that room, my husband never heard of it before.

Anna Brit (41:20)
First of all, it's so special and I'm so thankful also to be able to help them with that, but also to be a part of that. That's still one of the most beautiful things, I think, in my work. When people really dare to be vulnerable and share.

And mostly in the first place with me, with her partner being there, but it's so important that the partner hears about it. Because that's showing your vulnerability is the number one reason for your partner to, to show theirs. when that happens and a real connection happens in that process, that's like.

Well, you can feel it in the room. It also touches me being there and seeing it. I think it's a beautiful thing. And yes, there is hurt. And yes, people say things that are hurtful or that are not helpful in the moment. And I'm there to, we call it catch the bullets sometimes. Like, okay. And I'm like, especially in the beginning, translating.

And asking like, okay, you tell me this, but is this actually what it is like? Like you, you offer a palette of different flavors or different things. And it's not that I tell them what they feel because I don't know. But of course, from experience, I can guess in what direction it might be. So I'm like offering the subtitles. Is this what you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. Because they know you probably experienced that too. You know, when something is the way you feel it.

Roula (43:18)
It's so good to have like a third party putting sense to all these arguments. Like a third party trying to, not trying but skilled, to not be a referee, just to hold in the mirror for both sides.

Anna Brit (43:37)
But it's so hard because of those walls to actually listen to each other. So if we break down the walls, and that's what we do in a session in that process, if we break down the walls and we as partners can show our vulnerability and we have someone there that understands both parties, because it feels like you're not on the same team in those moments, and listen to it. I mean, it's not up to me and I don't judge. I understand the...

the feelings and the perspectives from both partners. It's for me to help them build that bridge and understand and become a team again. And they are already, but it doesn't feel like that with the chimpanzee and the turtle. It feels like you're in different team, but actually you want the same. The chimpanzee wants the same too. He or she wants to restore the connection and is taught to do that by talking and being close and

and the other one by keeping the distance a little bit and taking some time.

Roula (44:39)
You know, when I'm thinking about the example of the turtle and the turtles and I'm thinking, when you growing up, when we were teenagers, saying that opposite attracts, and when opposite attracts in the beginning, it's so exciting. The best sex, the best fun, the best everything. Amazing. And then this opposite attracts become the problem. And then we start thinking, we don't fit. want to like, I'm different than you.

Anna Brit (45:08)
Yeah.

Roula (45:08)
So

this doesn't work. Can you take me a little bit in this area how opposite attracts actually can be repaired rather than...

Anna Brit (45:17)
Sometimes it makes partners hopeless. Like, oh my God, if we really have such a different way of dealing with it, can this work? Yeah, it can. But we need we need to understand each other and it's hard and about opposites attract. I mean, sometimes you have two turtles or you have two chimpanzees in a relationship or in dynamic. That's possible too. But opposites attract it's mostly

Roula (45:42)
you.

Anna Brit (45:47)
Yeah, what attracts us in a partner and what makes us fall in love in the first place is often something we recognize from ourselves, a challenge we face ourselves. But then we see that our partner or the person that we feel attracted to, that this person deals with that in a different way.

Roula (46:17)
day attractor.

Anna Brit (46:18)
And that sometimes is like, yeah, something that's really attractive. Try to give an example here. So for instance,

someone is insecure sometimes and one person is when you're insecure is

Well, just withdrawing a little bit and not trying too much, but might come across as confident and calm and quiet, which seems really attractive. But we recognize that insecurity maybe, that we maybe have ourselves, but maybe we have a different way of dealing with it. For instance, trying to do our best and make everything perfect and...

really work hard and make sure we have everything under control. be.

Roula (47:17)
That's an excellent, excellent example.

Anna Brit (47:20)
But actually underneath, we sometimes are really insecure, but we have different ways of dealing with it. And then for the partner that seems more calm and in control, might look at the other and think like, wow, this person knows it all and so confident and does a perfect job. But actually that person feels insecure as well. And maybe the partner that comes across like calm.

maybe is a procrastinator and it doesn't really get things done. So that's why this person is looking at the other and thinking like, wow, the other one is successful and knows it all. And maybe you can learn something from this person.

Roula (48:07)
Seven years in the relationship.

Anna Brit (48:09)
Seven years in the relationship, the successful go-getter looks at his or her partner and thinks like, my God, why are you procrastinating? Come on, do it already. And you don't see that lovely part that this person also has, like the calm and taking the time and having different ways of dealing with it. And the other way around.

the go-getter and trying to do everything perfect and going into the doing when not feeling that secure might come across as maybe a bit critical or you never take time to relax or come on, when are you there for me? So other things appear. So you have your dynamic there, your conflicts and well, you can throw a lot of things in the mix, but.

Roula (48:59)
That is the pattern answer for opposite attracts and how it is translated into a conflict a few years in the relationship.

Anna Brit (49:06)
Yeah, so easy. So something, yeah, attracts. yeah, and that's also the challenge. Because when we get disappointed, we have this image of the other. And we think like, okay, it's different than I thought. But the other is, I mean, he didn't sign up for it, or she didn't sign up for it. It was something that we thought. So then actually, it's important to be really curious.

and not stick to our beliefs of the other, but getting to know each other. And that's what we do in the work I do with couples as well. Become curious and not stick to the images or the thoughts we had or the beliefs we had from the other.

Roula (50:00)
grow from there because

Anna Brit (50:01)
and accepting the other for who he or she is.

Roula (50:04)
Okay,

because this doesn't mean it's now a deal breaker. No. Oh, you're a procrastinator. Oh, you're all over the place. No. This is not what I signed up for.

Anna Brit (50:14)
No, and you can actually support each other. mean, we cannot make each other responsible for the feelings that we have or for what we need. But when partners actually learn how to share what's really happening and how to ask for what they need, because that's mostly hard for people. No, in a way, actually, that's working. mean, when it feels like critique or when it sounds like critique, feels like critique mostly.

So if we say like, why are you doing it that way? It's different than, hey, darling, I'm curious, tell me, why do you do it in this way? I really want to understand you. It's a different way. So those subtle changes.

Roula (50:53)
Get angry,

it's you again!

Anna Brit (51:01)
But to get out of that dynamic like ping-ponging and pressing each other's triggers, that's awful. It's tiring.

Roula (51:11)
very

tired from the disconnect conversation. How about getting into the repair? Let's have a little bit of tea first.

Okay, so we're back to talk about the repair because there is hope things can get better and couple can grow together. It's, it is a growing process, I think, and it's important that they grow together. Divorce can always be an option when things don't work out, but it's a shame not to. If there is love and care.

Anna Brit (51:45)
Definitely.

Well, yeah, there needs to be love and there needs to be the willingness to grow also. And sometimes partners grow apart and that's OK. I mean, it happens sometimes. We don't need to stick together no matter what. But there are so many ways to learn how to improve your relationship and not by becoming someone else, but becoming more yourself and showing more of yourself, actually.

Roula (52:28)
Can we go into this? Is this part of the repair? How does the little step to repair look like before we start knowing ourselves and show up as the true authentic us? So what's the first little steps that we can take to repair this disconnect?

Anna Brit (52:31)
definitely. Yeah.

Well, I think it starts with becoming more aware of what's happening within ourselves.

Roula (52:59)
Amen.

Anna Brit (53:02)
A relationship is a beautiful way of learning about yourself in the first place. And we always bring ourselves in every relationship. mean, relationships are not only with our partners, of course, but also with our children, with our family, with our friends, co-workers, whomever we interact with. So becoming more aware of who you are and what makes you, what your triggers are and becoming more aware of what you do.

is really helpful and that's a process. It starts with regularly checking in. What do I feel right now? Where's tension in my body? Because in order to repair, we need to be able to regulate dealing with our emotions.

Roula (53:51)
I think I did breast up because it starts in my neck and travels to my stomach and then I forget to breathe.

Anna Brit (53:59)
Yeah, yeah. So

in order to, well, as I told you before, like in order to have that part of the brain be involved, that part of the brain that can take care of connection and listening to understand and empathy and believing that what the other is telling you is really how the other experiences it. It's not about winning in an argument.

Roula (54:27)
Hold on, let me go back to that point. Listen to how the other is experiencing and believe it's the truth. This is okay. I stopped by it because sometimes the other tell us, no, I didn't mean to belittle you or I didn't mean to criticize you. But I say, for example, but I feel criticized and the other person

Anna Brit (54:37)
Yeah.

Roula (54:57)
which is my partner in this case, I'm not having, it's not a friendly conversation. The other partner will deny me the feeling that I felt criticized. Yeah. Or that I felt belittled.

Anna Brit (55:09)
Yeah, and you deny him the feeling that his intention was good.

Roula (55:14)
come on, Annabelle! But it is! So then we're in that...

Anna Brit (55:21)
how do you call it? Stand up again, like waiting for each other to lower your wall. Come on, I'm hurt now, you have to listen. Yeah, but I'm hurt too. You didn't get my intent. So we can learn ways how to say it in a different way. So it doesn't feel like critique or you have the feeling that you listen. So listening to understand is like this key element.

Roula (55:43)
Yeah, so in this case can I say I know you didn't mean to belittle me but I took it this way. Would that be a better way of bringing it?

Anna Brit (55:54)
Yeah, and telling your partner, like when you say it in this way or when you do something in this situation, I actually feel, and that makes a big difference, share what you feel. I feel like that. no, no, no, you feel. And you feel because you have this mix of experience you had in your life and some are delicate and some hurt and some...

Roula (56:09)
So don't say, make me feel, no.

Anna Brit (56:23)
and your partner cannot know them all. They cannot guess. So you need to tell it, but in a way that the other one can hear it.

Roula (56:33)
feel attacked. Despite that it's a two-way street in this conversation, to repair this it comes down to the fact that we, like me as a person, I have to really think why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling.

Anna Brit (56:35)
Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah. Take ownership for your own feeling and your own actions. All of them. It's hard, but all of them. It's your feeling. It's your reaction. And although we can understand where it came from and that your intentions are well, if you're being critical, then your partner feels hurt as well. So you can take ownership of that part of being critical.

Roula (57:18)
So in the first phase of taking ownership of how we feel and our actions, can you say Annabelle that in this first phase, the person who wanted to take ownership will feel like, why it's on me? I know why, because I did the work.

Anna Brit (57:33)
A bite? Yeah.

Sometimes we have that feeling, why is it on me? I have to do it alone again. I'm doing everything alone, that feeling, right? Yeah. That's something old mostly that we as a child may have felt or earlier in our lives, I have felt that we did it alone. And maybe

we learn to do it ourselves and become really independent. But sometimes we want this from our partner, but we didn't have the skills how to ask for it or how to address it in a way that the other one can hear it. Yes. So not like blaming you for, you make me feel like I have to do it all alone. But like, darling, when you say it like that, I have this feeling again. And I know I have this feeling more often.

but it's like delicate, it's a pain point maybe also. And then I have this feeling and then when I have this feeling, I tend to maybe be more critical and I'm sorry, I will work on that, but taking ownership for that.

Roula (58:49)
I hope the listeners are taking note of what you're saying, Anna-Britt. You already gave them the first step instead of saying, oh, did you mean to hurt me? No, your first step is saying, okay, it's my main point. And when you say it this way, it triggers something in me. Is that your responsibility? No.

Anna Brit (59:10)
But you can help your partner though. I mean, but you can only help if your partner is sharing with you what they feel and what they need. And maybe they don't know yet what they need and you can help your partner by asking, okay, is there anything I can do for you? Do you want a hug? Or do you want to talk about it or you need some space or?

Roula (59:35)
But these things, these questions would come after the human work, right? Because in the beginning we're still building these walls and trying to figure out how we don't hurt each other in this repair process. So in your trajectory, when we talk about repair, is it each individual has to do their work on themselves first?

Anna Brit (59:59)
No, we work on it together because you learn a lot when you hear your partner talking about it. And what I do, I work a certain amount of sessions together, but at the same time also do some individual sessions because sometimes there are pain points or there are things that we can go a little bit deeper on. And we do that in individual sessions, but then mostly partners share that with their partners also, of course. Yeah.

Roula (1:00:26)
it's okay because I do believe some things you can be very vulnerable but there is an inner individual work that it needs to be so personal that your partner as you said can later hear about it but the core of it you need to do this on your own without anyone listening except for the coach maybe no not maybe with the coach to help you get out of

And partners feel left out of this.

Anna Brit (1:00:57)
Yeah, so I mostly do that with both partners there. I work with emotionally focused therapy. I love that. Where we work with attachment styles as well and to see your first blueprint of what you learned of relationships and how you interact. So giving the subtitles, as I said, to explain what's actually happening. And then when you learn how to focalize it, how to find the words for it.

then a different thing starts. So I help partners to find the words and find the ways how to say it in a way that your partner actually can hear it.

Roula (1:01:38)
And like they go home with some homework.

Anna Brit (1:01:41)
Yeah, also sometimes it can help work.

Roula (1:01:44)
It's hard work every day.

Anna Brit (1:01:45)
It is and reflection is a really important one. You can do it at home too. mean, when something happened, mean, I always say it's your partner is like your mirror. You can learn so much from it. So especially in relationship, you can learn so much about yourself and also going to a relationship coach or therapist. I mean, you learn a lot about yourself that you take with you for the rest of your life. It's so valuable.

and becoming more, knowing yourself better and becoming more capable of dealing with emotions and painful stuff you had in the past makes you freer and makes it easier. It makes it more playful and makes it more joyful to actually interact with your partner. And conflicts are there. mean, I think to me, conflicts are healthy. It's nuts.

I mean, it's okay if you can disagree about something. The energy can be nice too. I mean, but you don't need to give critique or be nasty to each other or call each other whatever. I mean, that's not what conflict is about.

Roula (1:03:01)
It gets to a point where the conflict is like, okay, maybe we should live in separate rooms, you know?

Anna Brit (1:03:07)
conflict

shouldn't be toxic or negative necessarily. I mean, there can be emotions and you can disagree and you can share that. I mean, but when it becomes toxic, because you cannot listen to each other or you hurt each other, then you have some work to do it there. And there's a lot to learn. Yeah.

Roula (1:03:26)
agree with you. In the repair session, or not session, but in the repair path, the couple, they begin into understanding themselves, the way they react, learning how to talk to each other so they don't trigger or throw the responsibility on the other. And what would our...

activities because by then, by that moment, they're not living a life anymore. Practical and arguing, back to practical. They don't have a life together. There is no intimacy. No. is, yeah.

Anna Brit (1:04:06)
And the painful thing is that it never, mean, partners hope it will get better, but it's not going to be like you wake up one day and it's not going to be there anymore. It's not, you have to do the work. It's like going to the gym. You have to develop the skills, how to connect when your partner reaches out to you.

share something with you and you're not responding or you're being critical or you don't have any time. There's a disconnect all the time, time and time again. And we need those little moments. Building a relationship and building intimacy actually starts with the little things every day. So by changing those, like being attentive and being grateful, also helping your own mind, because when we...

Like you say, when we live next to each other, but it's only the practical stuff and intimacy is gone. I mean, our minds do that. We become more critical. We become more negative. We only see the bad parts of our partners. And we can help our brains, actually, to make this movement, to see more positive things.

And when we start to see more positive things and focus on that, help our brain to focus on that, then there's more space to be curious, to ask questions, to be grateful. So it enhances that, but it also starts with that. So we can become aware of, how am I doing this? I'm doubting about my partner again, or about our relationship.

I only see the negative parts. I only see the procrastination or I only see the go, go, not taking time. So a beautiful practice or something you can do yourself when you feel you're in a situation like that is take some time every day and think about the things that you're thankful for, that you're grateful for. And you can start by doing it yourself.

if the intimacy is not there yet, you can write it down like three things every day and should be different things every day. It could be like the smile he or she gave you when handing you your coffee or when dealing with the kids or doing something or a little chore he or she did for you to make your life easier. So seeing the positive things.

Roula (1:06:28)
So.

Anna Brit (1:06:46)
and being, taking time for it really helps the brain to...

Roula (1:06:51)
I'm thinking of all the good things my husband has, so now I got distracted for a You know, I practice this when I feel I'm annoyed or I feel like some negative emotion is coming in me. I go, I either like walk out or go upstairs to the bedroom and while I'm walking, I trained myself so it's easy for me to do. I think of all the good things he has. I even think of how beautiful his hands are or...

you know, exactly what you said, the good thing he does for us, how much he cares for us, how much he loves us. And then I come back downstairs, like nothing happened and I'm happy again. And I'm sure sometimes he's like confused, like she just walks up looking angry and now she's happy again. And then he blames it on my midlife hormones. But the truth is, I'm in an exercise mode to feel the love again.

I mean we have the love, I just have to open my bag and search for it a bit deeper. On the top is only my makeup and the love is all

Anna Brit (1:07:58)
And what you said is a beautiful thing because dealing with our emotions, when we feel frustrated or angry or hurt, whatever, we feel it in our bodies. And there are things that can help us actually to deal with that and feel good again, and also to involve that part of the brain again. But moving is a beautiful way of doing that, but also talking or singing because our, yeah, yeah, yeah, but our main...

thinking about the English word now because sometimes it's which you don't. yeah, autonomic autonomic nurses. So couldn't find the word something with with hormones.

Roula (1:08:38)
Something went wrong? I'm not sure.

Anna Brit (1:08:40)
And age, no, no, But we actually regulate by doing things that are connected to that system. And the vocal cords are, and the ears are, and the eyes are, but moving our system is. So we can do a lot of things. Looking at art, art brings amazement. Amazement opens up the brain, actually, to be vulnerable again, to learn, to be curious, all those things.

and listening to music. And we have different kinds of music, but you can actually create a playlist that helps you regulate. When you're angry, create a playlist that makes you feel at ease again. Or when you feel like you don't have any energy, create a playlist that gives you more energy. mean, so we can help the body actually to be regulated again. And the beauty of repair is also to involve your partner, to share like, okay.

I was like taking your example, I'm not saying you have to do it, but it can be helpful. I was walking up and down stairs and thinking about all the beautiful things that you do and how grateful I am for that. Sharing that is that brings like magic to a relationship, opening up and sharing what happens. Because we all want to feel that our partner loves us and thinks we're great and appreciate what we do.

Roula (1:10:08)
I want to say something about, you know how we were saying, you made me feel this way and we should not say it. In the realm of what you're saying, to share that I'm grateful for you today, etc. It's also good to say you made me feel happy or you put a smile on my face.

Anna Brit (1:10:31)
When you did this, you put a smile on my face.

Roula (1:10:33)
Say how you make me feel good, but it's not good to say how you make me feel bad. For that one, we need some training.

Anna Brit (1:10:41)
Well, you can say what this kind of behavior makes me feel bad because I get this and this feeling explaining like opening your door towards your heart and sharing your vulnerability, not by saying you have to fix it, but could you listen to what's happening here because you I love you and I want you to know me. So that's why I'm telling you.

Roula (1:11:03)
you.

Maybe we're expecting them to fix something, to change something in them, to help us fix what's making us feel bad. And in the repair, this must be a very hot topic about how to open up our heart, but not expect that the other one will solve it for us.

Anna Brit (1:11:33)
And mostly we don't need the other one to solve it. We want them to listen and understand, see us for who we really are, love us for who we are. And when we can show ourselves and what we feel and everything that belongs with it, then they get to know us more. And that's mostly, that's what we really want.

Roula (1:11:56)
Because when you say to love us for who we are, we are not that angry person. So when they don't love us in that angry moment, it's because that's not us.

Anna Brit (1:12:07)
But the anger is, not really about the anger in that moment. It's probably about something else that's underneath, maybe because we don't feel seen or hurt, or we don't feel appreciated or valued. And it makes us frustrated or angry. And it's not about that. But in order for them to understand that, we need to share what's really happening. And that begins with becoming more aware.

what's actually happening within us, what we feel.

Roula (1:12:41)
And doing this, it means they will mirror our behaviour when we are open and vulnerable and appreciating and positive.

Anna Brit (1:12:54)
Not

always and not immediately maybe, but it's an invitation. Yeah. Yeah. And when you lower your walls, the chances that the other one will do the same are way much bigger than when we keep them up.

Roula (1:13:09)
Yeah,

I think when their walls are high, they're double because each partner is bringing up their own wall. Yeah, we don't want to be vulnerable. We don't want to appreciative things because that person doesn't deserve, they hurt me. I don't want them to be nice. And only when these walls start falling apart piece by piece, I see it in front of me really. see...

myself sitting in the room of the coach and I'm seeing my walls falling like getting lower and lower because when I built them up I had also expectations from my partner and I was demanding them to be delivered. I had no clue what my partner's going through and if I knew what they're going through

As we said previous in the part of the disconnect, I did not believe them. I didn't take them seriously. I just was so focused on how I'm feeling, how you're making me feel.

Anna Brit (1:14:20)
And

if you turn that around, if that would be the case that your partner didn't even think about your feelings, I mean, that's hard, right? So lowering and being curious and actually asking and believing that what your partner tells you is really true, is really how he or she perceives it or feels it, then something else happens.

Roula (1:14:44)
Stop wanting them to feel different. Because it's not what we meant.

Anna Brit (1:14:48)
No, no,

no, we fell in love with them, but sometimes we fall in love with an idea of someone. And then we can ask ourselves, is that like even at the, mean, then who did we fall in love with? Shouldn't we be curious?

Roula (1:14:54)
Yeah.

Yes, I think in good people relationships, know, because of course there are the abusers, are the narcissistic, not every relationship is healthy, but in a healthy relationship conflicts are a must to grow and develop as a person. And when we get vulnerable, we might even fall all over again in love.

Anna Brit (1:15:32)
Yeah, yeah. And explore different ways about a partner. That's a beautiful thing. Becoming way more connected than you ever did before. And going back about the narcissistic and the toxic ones. mean, sometimes we tend to talk about this is a healthy relationship and that's not, but it's not that black and white, of course. Sometimes we have.

behavior that is not helpful. And we can learn a lot about that and how to change it. But we need to understand first. And that's why it's so important to work with someone on that, because it's really hard to look at those parts. But we can understand why we do it. Because sometimes we do it with the best intentions. And it's really hurtful that we get misunderstood.

And then that feels so vulnerable that we don't even want to look at it. But if we get the chance to look at it and learn different ways how to behave, so we don't hurt our partner, then it gives so much and it makes such a difference. Just saying, like, I mean,

almost, I mean, no one is flawless and no one is perfect. Of course, there's no relationship that's a hundred percent healthy. I don't think so. It's spectrum, but still there's a lot to improve that makes it easier also for us, but also for our partner and the interaction. And it makes us more flexible in how to deal with the, with hard things that are going to come. I mean, it's life.

Roula (1:17:24)
It also opens our eyes because when we do this work and the partner is doing the work, then we know if this relationship is going in the right direction. But when the work is done, I mean, it's never finished. I knew you were going comment on that. It's never finished. But when we start with the work and we are practicing and we're becoming better at it because we are doing this work every single day, we're just getting better at it.

Then we can judge if this relationship is good for us, is good for the family, good to continue, rather than giving up too early or staying too long.

Anna Brit (1:18:07)
Yeah, well, there are also partners that come at a point in their relationship that they're not sure if they want to proceed. But it brings so much clarity, mostly, on indeed how they connect and what they want and how much love there is and how they can rekindle that. that is it's also valuable when you decide not to stay together, and especially when there are children, how to deal with

with the parenting and how to do that as partners together, even though you're not together. I mean, you learn a lot about yourself and it's important to take ownership over your partner and learn and interact from that place. So I think it's, yeah, well, I made my work out of it. But I think it's always important to work with that.

Roula (1:19:03)
think even if the relationship, the final decision is we better be happily separated, the inner work done will help them in their new relationship. Making the right choices and knowing themselves, being more authentic. it's only for the better. You know, why do we think that, and this is like a general question.

Anna Brit (1:19:14)
Exactly, yeah.

You

Roula (1:19:32)
I'm tired of hearing that we should solve it ourselves. We must have all the answers. If we are not good enough, if we don't find a solution for that problem, it is time to be more open-minded. And I think if the listener is listening to this podcast, it means they are in the place or where they like self-development, they want personal growth.

And otherwise they won't listen to this book. And this is where it's really the place where to say that growing is learning new things, learning how to deal with our problems. If nothing worked for years, why would it work for the next five years?

Anna Brit (1:20:03)
Yeah.

Yeah. If you keep on doing the same, nothing's going to change. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And growing is uncomfortable and doing uncomfortable stuff. It comes with, sometimes partners think like, oh, this is not working. A partner or a relationship should be perfect. And this is not it because it doesn't go by itself. So maybe just give up and find another partner. Find the perfect one for me. Well.

Roula (1:20:27)
have to grow.

Anna Brit (1:20:53)
That's not going to happen. So exactly as you said, I mean, we can learn a lot from our relationships. And even though eventually we might not stay together, you learn to solve your own shit, as I would say. Like you learn to solve and get to know yourself and solve your difficulties or your challenges. And for a next relationship, it does something else. I mean,

You don't otherwise, I mean, if you just say, okay, this is not the relationship and you go to the next one, you will bump into the same kind of struggles. And it might be slightly different with different partner pushing different buttons, in essentially it's about the same thing. So solving your problems in your relationship is like the most valuable for yourself for future relationships, if there are going to be others.

but also for your children. Because kids don't learn from what we tell them to, they learn from what they see. So we actually are building on the blueprint of our children. And when we become more regulated, when we learn how to repair conflict, when we learn to have more healthy coping mechanisms and have more healthy relationships, that's like the most valuable gift we can give our children if it comes to relationships.

Roula (1:22:18)
How many children are growing up with parents who have very very I don't want to use heavy words. Growing up in a couple where there's no affection, no intimacy, there's no shown love and then they go into their relationship thinking this is marriage. They're cold and not connected. This is marriage, that's fine. And there are children who

Anna Brit (1:22:42)
Yeah.

Roula (1:22:44)
are from divorced parents, but then they see their parents happy in relationships or happy alone, building their life alone. This is also a good lesson. I'm not saying that divorce is good, but I'm also not saying that staying for the sake of children is also good. The good thing is to work on ourselves, to give them the good example.

Anna Brit (1:23:08)
Yeah, if there's constant tension and stress for the for the children, but also for the parents, then we do something else and we're stuck in survival mode, fight, flight, flee or please. And we're not doing what we actually should be doing, or we're not coping with that in healthy ways, mostly. So being more regulated, experiencing less stress goes for the parents, but also for the kids. So yeah, if it's a

intense stressful environment at home that has implications for the children as well.

Roula (1:23:44)
No one deserves to be walking on eggshells.

Anna Brit (1:23:47)
No, no.

Roula (1:23:48)
This was an incredibly fun episode that we have recorded because as you can see and listen, we were very comfortable in talking about everything. And what I want to tell you is that there is a bonus episode coming after this because once you work on your relationship and you have a better communication, you're doing fun stuff together and you are able to communicate. This is the time to elevate your sex life because a relationship couple relationship without sex.

I don't want it. Do you want it? Anna Britt and I will continue on the bonus episode to talk about more intimate conversation. Please stay tuned for the next one and let me know what you think. I hope this helped you. You will find details about Anna Britt if you like to follow her on social media or see her work. You can see all her details in the show notes.