Speaker 1 (00:01)
Welcome to the Life Affairs Podcast. This is a place where we share life experiences and the many lessons learned by just living. Join me to immerse ourselves and take a closer look at the stories that shaped and defined us. There's no judgment and lot of understanding on today's episode of the Life Affairs Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:17)
Just remember...

Speaker 1 (00:28)
What do we do to get back our sex life when it disappeared for various reasons? And we want it back. So good and healthy. What do we do? How do we get it back?

Speaker 2 (00:40)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. It is. It is.

Yeah, well, there's not one fix, of course, because it also depends on why there isn't any sex anymore. And of course, sometimes there are physical reasons for it. But in most cases, it's about the intimacy not being there. And intimacy isn't only the physical intimacy, of course, but the being vulnerable, as we talked about before, and the sharing.

who you are and being aware of actually who you are and what you want.

Speaker 1 (01:20)
It's hard to know what we want in sex when we're dealing with so much and we don't know ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:29)
Yeah,

and when the tension is up and the stress is up and we don't feel seen or hurt or loved or valued, then it's hard. And I'm going to generalize here a little bit for men and women. mean, but in general, I'm not saying it's a hundred percent like that, but women need to open up on many levels to receive.

sex. And I want to say sex is not only a penetration of course, sex is playing and as Esther Perel beautifully puts it, sex is a place to go to, it's not something you do. And I totally see that, I totally agree with that. And in order to go to that place, to be playful, we need to be connected and we need to feel we can be playful.

So when partners come to me and they say, we don't have sex anymore, they mostly come and say, yeah, well, the reason that we're here is that our communication is kind of hard. We argue a lot. yeah, and we don't have sex anymore. And it's not a separate thing actually. It's all intertwined. It's not this mechanical thing. You want to feel connected and especially women, as I told you, and want to know, can I be playful? Can you...

Can you be there for me? And sometimes when things in the relationship happen, and this is especially from a women's point of view. So for instance, when you have the feeling that your partner isn't there for you on certain levels because they're not aware or they're not there with you and really listening to you or responding, or when you have the feeling that...

When things are hard, they don't support you and you have the feeling that you're alone all the time. Then in sex, you're okay, but I'm, have the feeling that I have to take care of you and the balance is gone and I'm trying to fix things because I see you struggle. Then the balance is off and you become more the parent. You're more in a parent role to give you an example.

Speaker 1 (03:36)
Because women, can very well go into the mothering role and forget their femininity and their sexual appeal.

Speaker 2 (03:45)
Yeah,

and not necessarily because the men want it. No, no Because we do it. Yeah. Yeah, force it on them Yeah, and then when we do when we and that's a dynamic you see a lot when and it's especially women but also men who do it when you give a lot when you try to help or save the other and the other was not really asking for it, but kind of It's feeding someone a cake

that you don't want to have or a cup of tea that you don't anyway. So it's yeah, yeah, yeah. I see it's good for you hearing you want to have it, you want to have it. And the other ones, well, not actually, but anyway, when you're in a dynamic that when there's, the balance is off, then you see that in sec, it's hard to feel sexy or it's hard to, to want to be with the other. Because in that sense, you don't want to want to be the parent, parent of your partner, right? You want.

You want your partner to... I don't know.

Speaker 1 (04:45)
Because women want the man that protects them and there is this dynamic. That's why we kind of say we like boys. It's not because they're bad. It's just because they trigger something in us that makes us feel alive. But this doesn't work when we are busy with practical things and not being turned off because we still think we're arguing about the dishwasher. There's something deeper. And is it?

So from the perspective of women, I'm thinking it's my, from my experience, don't know, I don't know 100%. Does it work differently? Would it be, for example, if the man is getting sex, then he's nicer and more connected?

Speaker 2 (05:29)
But that's the thing with men, it's easier for them to connect or to have sex and afterwards they feel more connected. So for them it's an entrance to getting more intimate and sharing more and being more vulnerable also and showing more of themselves. And for women in order to do so, they need something else. Then again, they're waiting for each other sometimes and then you're like, okay, what's first?

Speaker 1 (05:53)
Yes,

what's first on the board?

Speaker 2 (05:55)
Yeah, well, it differs, of course, but talking about it really helps. because it's really a sensitive topic for a lot of people, we don't want to disappoint the other. We don't want to give them the feeling that they don't do it right or whatever. They're sensitive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we don't dare to speak up and say, hey, it's nice. But after this many years, it's not really, well, it's not that exciting anymore. Let's try something else.

Speaker 1 (06:11)
So please take a seat.

Speaker 2 (06:24)
It's hard sometimes to have that conversation, but it's so helpful. So it begins with, if you're talking about the disconnect and the connecting again, talking about sex does a lot. And in the beginning, it's, it's hard and it's uncomfortable, but doing it more often and especially doing it not in the bedroom, but when you're at the table, when you don't feel that vulnerable, it really helps. You have a lot of.

questions you can ask, have, or you can find a lot online also, but it helps to start with saying, hey, I think this is a bit scary and I feel uncomfortable, but I think it's really important to us because I want us to have sex and be intimate again. So if you start like that and then take a deep breath and just ask each other some questions.

and start talking about it, then it starts to open up. And then from there, you can explore into what are you dreaming of? What are you fantasizing about? And that's another hard topic, the fantasizing. Well, maybe you saw the film now, Baby Girl.

Speaker 1 (07:28)
But I have the book Well, let me tell you the secret I have the book want from Gillian and and she gathered all kind of fantasies by women My husband gave me this book. I read it for him out loud. We felt very connected Yeah, what I'm trying to say here is that when we are arguing about the practical thing things How amazing to stop and say you know what we haven't have sex for

Speaker 2 (07:36)
yeah.

beautiful.

Speaker 1 (07:57)
Two months! And this is why I'm frustrated. But women don't say that because they underestimate how important sex is in their life. They put everything important in their life. The kids, the house, the work, the partner, the family. We're also at the age taking care of our parents. We put everything in there and we say sex is not on my... it's not on this. They push it away. It's also what women do.

Yep, not me. I don't do that. No, I don't think you do that

Speaker 2 (08:30)
No, no, it's important. You feel connected when you have sex. You feel connected when you are close. And sometimes I'm not saying you have to do something against your will. Of course not. But sometimes we can make us want something. I mean, but it starts with becoming more aware of what you need in order to want. So maybe you take a...

a warm shower or a bath, or maybe you spend some time alone first, or maybe you book a hotel when you have small kids and you don't feel you have to space at home. But create a space, create an environment.

Speaker 1 (09:08)
Go during the day when they are at school and come back after school time. Yeah. Yeah have to go and overnight

Speaker 2 (09:14)
No, but go play together. Yeah, it's so important.

Speaker 1 (09:17)
Play! I I love this word and I think when we play, sex life becomes... to flourish again, was before and the arguments get less.

Speaker 2 (09:30)
Yeah, you feel more connected, you feel more close. You tend to look at things that are more positive. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:36)
Why do we push it away, sex? Why women? Not all of them again. Why some women?

Speaker 2 (09:42)
Because it becomes complicated sometimes when we think the other wants something from us, when we're giving a lot and we have the feeling that the other one's not really there for us, then sometimes sex feels another thing on your to do. Now he wants this from me. Sometimes feelings that are in the way. Or when you want to play and when you have certain fantasies but you don't dare to share it.

It can make it hard as well. Maybe you are afraid that your partner will think less of you or think you're, I don't know, weird or, and it's important to know that fantasies are not what we want necessarily in real life. It can be, it can be beautiful, but not necessarily, but talking about it and sharing is, is, can be a great step to, to more joy and more, more togetherness and more understanding.

Speaker 1 (10:37)
And I think this, my opinion, my experience, we also reduce the wanting to be with someone else than your partner. Because when we don't talk about sex with our partner, then our partner will think they have something better. And when I talk, sounds like my partner, a man, but it could also be a woman. This is no gender.

Speaker 2 (11:04)
No, first left.

Speaker 1 (11:06)
then the past partners think they will have more exciting sex outside of their relationship because it's so exciting. They forget that if partners together talk excitedly about sex, the fantasy is what they like, and be open for it, it's something that will avoid that they look for it elsewhere.

Speaker 2 (11:28)
Yeah, we forget sometimes that we are the ones creating our relationships, but also our sex lives. We think, okay, this is the way it is with my partner and that's it. It's not really fulfilling or it's not really satisfying. Okay, then this what it is and maybe I look for it somewhere else. But we forget, we don't realize that we can actually shape that by sharing because we cannot guess what the other wants.

If we say, hey, I love the way we did it, or maybe I didn't, but I would love to explore with you how we can do something else and enjoy and have more pleasure and, find our way to build our ideal sex life.

Speaker 1 (12:11)
because they cannot know what they want if they don't try. Also, And not that the try will be a success until they know what they like.

Speaker 2 (12:21)
Yeah, and both partners have their ways of wanting stuff and their fantasies and the ways they find pleasure. And sharing that with your partner is the most or the best way actually to try. I mean, you don't need to try necessarily what you don't know. You might if you want to explore new stuff, but it...

If one of the partners is wanting that, then share it and go explore. But I'm not saying... No, no, no. I'm not saying, okay, we have a thousand ways of having sex and you should try them all and go... Not necessarily, but if you're curious and you want to find out, yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 (12:52)
fantasy has to become true.

So maybe we advise the listeners to watch it. What do you think?

Speaker 2 (13:08)
Yeah, it was an interesting one, especially about the fantasy and talking about that, about what the fantasy is about and how important it is to share it with your partner.

Speaker 1 (13:19)
Yeah, there's another excellent movie. I know we're not giving movies recommendations. No, no, no. But these two are very important for women. There is a movie with Emma Thompson and I think the title is Good Luck to You Leo Grant. It's about a retired woman who hires a man escort. So Emma Thompson with a young guy in that room, the entire movie there in a hotel room.

And this experience, it's an eye-opener for women. Because we women think we should not initiate sex, we must not ask for it, and we are there for others' pleasure. Because asking for pleasure makes us maybe sound like a slut, or we're too experienced. There is this stigma about us women.

Speaker 2 (14:03)
A

lot. It's hard. It's hard for women. And also, we think of sex mostly. Penetration is the way to go. Well, it might be fun for a lot of men and also for women, but it's not all about sex. There's much more. And if you talk about orgasms and if you talk about pleasure, then for men it's mostly more than for women. mean, women also want other stuff.

Speaker 1 (14:32)
Women can pleasure themselves much better than men can unless they tell them what they want.

Speaker 2 (14:40)
Exactly. But the stigma is this is the way people have sex. And if the women don't experience so much pleasure, there's something wrong with them. And it's not. If you look at the way the body works and also having sex in certain positions, for women, it's less arousing or it does something else. So we need to, in order to both enjoy sex, look at what you both want and what's pleasurable for both.

Speaker 1 (15:10)
about it without feeling offended or you're not good enough.

Speaker 2 (15:15)
Yeah, but also the norm is not the way, the best way for the most women. There are a lot of women that don't find enough pleasure, they don't orgasm while having sex, as in the... Me too! But they're ashamed, okay, it's not working with your body or there's something wrong with you, so we have all these heavy stigmas and there's heavy shit around it.

Speaker 1 (15:27)
Waves to the sun.

Speaker 2 (15:42)
So it makes it hard to actually experience pleasure and talk about it openly. And I think that's a beautiful thing. If man, and I'm generalizing again, but it is.

Speaker 1 (15:52)
Talking

about straight couples here, but it can be for any other

Speaker 2 (15:55)
But if you have sex in a way that's more pleasurable for one than the other, it's the best invitation, it's the best incentive for the partner, if you talk about men in this case, for men to explore with their partners how they can experience more sex. Because when sex disappears, then it's mostly because it's not worth doing it for the partner. Not enough.

It has to do with intimacy and openness, but also about pleasure. So when your wife or your partner or whatever is not experiencing enough pleasure, then the wanting becomes less and less. So if you both work on finding ways that is pleasurable for the both of you, then the chances that you will keep on having sex are way bigger.

Speaker 1 (16:51)
now and then do something for each other, ask for it and do it for each other. mean, in a, again, I'm saying healthy relationship, in an intimate relationship with a couple, they know each other so well that sometimes it feels embarrassing to ask for what they want because he doesn't or she doesn't know me this way and I'm gonna ask for it.

Speaker 2 (17:16)
You might be rejected or feel that they're not doing it well enough or yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:21)
And this should not be, well, not in the moment. That's why what you said, the great advice, talk about it when you're not in the bedroom. I do hear lot of couples, maybe I experienced that too. When the kids were little, it was hard and no one really felt like doing it. Well, I did, but I didn't have the time for it. And it's so good to really find.

someone to babysit the kids for an hour or two. It's sad to deprive ourselves from sexual connection because we're so busy with our lives.

Speaker 2 (17:58)
Yeah, but sexual connection, a lack of it also. Yeah, yeah, but the intimacy, the emotional intimacy is getting less as well. So it builds upon it. We need, we need all of it. And of course there are times that we don't feel like it because we're stressed, because we don't feel right in our bodies or because it's hard, but we need to build those bridges again and reconnect in order to do so.

Speaker 1 (18:03)
trigger and retic?

Please ladies, say what you like. Sex is important.

Speaker 2 (18:29)
It's so important, yeah, and it's fun. mean, it's healthy and it builds more trust, more connection.

Speaker 1 (18:36)
You know what would be really something good to do when the couple is in a good days mode? gift each other, one of them can gift the other a good bottle of lubricant and that will be something to laugh about, something to talk about and something to try.

Speaker 2 (18:55)
I love it. We shouldn't forget that we don't stay the same person. It's not, yeah, but you always like this. So what happened? Are you seeing someone else or what's happening? You don't like me anymore? Things like that. Sometimes I hear. We change every day with what we experience. It forms us what we read or we see what we do. It changes us. We grow. And also, it also applies to sex.

It's not that what we liked years ago that is going to stay the same all the time. So it's nice to explore. It's healthy to try something new. I'm not saying you have to if you don't want to, please do. you do. Yeah. But also here, be curious and ask, okay, what does it bring you with this fantasy or tell me about it or what would you like to try? Why? Well, I read this or that and I'm curious. Okay. Let's go play and explore.

Speaker 1 (19:53)
great books, great movies, bring this flame back. wish every couple is really enjoying their intimacy and sex life and having great communication because without that they can't get anywhere.

Speaker 2 (19:54)
Yeah, there's a lot to learn.

True, The Gochman Institute, they do a lot of research on relationships also, but they have this beautiful app. It's free actually. And they have questions also around intimacy. So you can download the app. It's the Gochman app, Double T Gochman. And they also have sex questions and it gives you some inspiration maybe to ask different questions. So if you find it hard, download the app and yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:22)
Yep, what's that?

in your intimate place you can discover and explore.

Speaker 2 (20:41)
Be

curious and ask questions. It gets you started.

Speaker 1 (20:45)
Alright, alright people, this was an extra for you so you can go and enjoy after you have dealt with your relationship issues.

Speaker 2 (20:53)
Now work on it on the same time, but take care of yourself in that sense also to make sure you are in the mood for something.

Speaker 1 (20:59)
Before we wrap it up, what do you think of makeup sex?

Speaker 2 (21:02)
Well, it can be intense, it can be great, and it's a beautiful way to connect sex. And it's also important to address what happened and talk about it and not just have sex and that's it.

Speaker 1 (21:16)
could be toxic. You can turn into toxic behavior.

Speaker 2 (21:19)
Yeah. Well, maybe to end with that, you have the five-loud language. Maybe you heard of it. Yeah. It's giving gifts, quality time, words of affirmation, acts of service and physical touch. So sex is one of them. And it's our language, it's our way to let the other one know that the other one's important to us. And we mostly have more than one, but it could be that physical touch is your way of letting

Speaker 1 (21:25)
Yes, let's repeat.

Speaker 2 (21:49)
the other know, I feel connected when we have sex or when I give you a hug or when I'm close to you or when I hold your hand or... So it could be that that is your number one language and that makeup sex to stay on that topic is your way of saying, I love you so much. You matter to me and it's beautiful. But it might be that your partner's love language is acts of service or quality time and really being there.

Speaker 1 (22:13)
Active service.

Speaker 2 (22:19)
really being aware.

connect. So we need all. So it's good to think about, okay, what is my language? How do I show my partner? And also understand what your partner's number one or top three maybe languages are. And sometimes speak each other's language.

Speaker 1 (22:41)
I'm going to print them out and make a game every day out of them. Great. I'm going to try every day to see what love language is in me today. There might be more than five. I'm going to look at them.

Speaker 2 (22:51)
And it's beautiful,

our kids have it too, and our parents and our friends. It's a beautiful way of looking at that. It's implemented. Some kids are helping, some are giving cuddles, some... We all have different ways.

Speaker 1 (23:02)
Beautiful. I'm going to work on that. You know, one day after we've been into our session of relations therapy, it was in the city center of Amsterdam, a beautiful location. We left the session. We went outside. The weather was incredible. The sun was shining and my husband and I just held our hands and we walked.

And at that moment I felt, my goodness, everything's going to be alright. Because it came so natural that...

Speaker 2 (23:36)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. I can't do a spongebob.

Speaker 1 (23:42)
So

everyone will be holding hands and having good strong relationship talks, having good sex and don't forget the five languages of love. Anna Bray, that was a pleasure.

Speaker 2 (23:53)
Yeah.

Thank you so much.